CBFS's longest route

[Tomb]

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having just flown a B707 from EGKK-SPIM, i think its our longest route though i only landed with about 500kgs from 70,000kgs, my heart was in my mouth the last hour, decending at night over the Andies mountain range on fumes..it will take a while for the adrenaline to stop...and thats just the virtual passengers..., strong westerly headwinds just about did for us, still the run back should be much faster...if unprofitable since i had to ditch half the pax and all the cargo to get all the fuel in... good job i earn overall more than i lose LoL... definatly one of our more exciting routes...

[MALTBY D]

Hi Bob

I just had a quick database search & it is indeed the longest route, by nearly 400nm.
Maybe we should recommend diverting for a refuelling stop if the wind is bad.
I see that CBFS also fly the 707 (only 320C though) to SYCJ - Cheddi Jagan Intl, Georgetown, Guyana. Never been there (& probably never will) but that looks perfectly placed from here.

We have a similar situation with the Comet 4 EGLL-KJFK. If you fly it with 'proper' fuel reserves in mind, depending on the headwind it can need a fuel stop at Gander.

Cheers
DM

[Chris Trott]

One of the nice things about the FSAirlines "Divert!" function is that it also works as a fuel stop adder since we can't specify them in the schedule (yet). If you don't feel comfortable going with enough passengers to make a profit due to weather, then take off with less fuel than you need but enough to make your intermediate stop and just declare a "divert" when you get close to your top of descent and land for fuel. The system will automatically add and book your continuing flight into the original destination when you close out the first segment in FSAirlines and then you can continue to your destination. Be aware that you won't get paid for the intermediate leg, only the completed full flight, so if you buy too much fuel at your intermediate stop, you'll still end up loosing money, but the ability to carry more passengers and cargo somewhat abates that problem.

[Tomb]

think its going to be a given to make an intermediate stop on this route, i think the return (downwind) run can be done in one hop with 1-2hrs of fuel to spare, however i will still lose 1.7 million. the run is do-able but not economic in 1 hop.

need to do some sums, the plane carries 160,000 lbs give or take and with the extra climb i will need another 40,000lbs for a total of 200,000lbs to make any profit i will need a full load so may even have to stop twice..thats another 40,000lbs for another climb so 240,000lbs and then the question of where to stop...

max fueled at 73,000Kgs at the plane carries just 77 pax, max load is 141 pax and 19,500Kgs cargo, average speed is 439Kts with a fuel flow of 5800kgs/hr

so where to stop while carring full pax and cargo and how many times, fuel at both SPIM and EGKK is expensive

my head hurts, where is the dispatcher when you need one... LoL

answers on a post card...or here anyway

[Chris Trott]

Remember though, that back in the day some of these routes didn't make profits. They were done for prestige or various international agreements, so they accepted the loss there and made it up elsewhere. This may be one of those routes.

[Tomb]

SPIM-SOCA-GOOY-EGKK, seems to be the way to go, fully loaded i can take 44,000kgs of fuel, good for about 2500miles with a reserve

direct route with just 77 pax used 73,000kgs of fuel and loses 1.7mil

indirect route with 141 pax and 19,000kgs of cargo will i estimate use 120,000kgs (at almost 50% cheaper rates at SOCA and GOOY)...we shall see how much money we lose this time Lol...hopefully less

[Tomb]

SPIM-SOCA -2mill
SOCA-GOOY -1mill
GOOY-EGKK +2.3mill

total loss 0.7mill compared to direct route loss of 1.7mill

interesting adventure, i had 30 mins of contigency fuel and 2 hours of reserve fuel for a 5hr planned trip

i used it all at 7hrs and landed with 45kgs...too close, head wind was pegged at 99kts, i think it was rather more...a lot more.

[Chris Trott]

May be the original was a seasonal route then if you're consistently getting that high of a headwind. They had quite a few like that during the 60's and 70's until more efficient engines (and longer ranges) came available in the form of the 747, DC-10, and L1011.

[Tomb]

you may be right, this is the fun of flying real weather, you get to learn stuff like this.

on the north atlantic run in a prop plane its very significant, since going west thier is just about always a headwind, not a big deal of say 50 kts to a jet but a hugh diffrence when your cruise speed is say 185kts (connie), it then becomes an issue of maximising your ground speed. (about 250kts)

for me in a prop plane its policy to fuel up to the gunnels and max all up wieght when going west...

been too close to a swim more than once to think otherwise, not too many "diverts" in the north atlantic LoL

[Chris Trott]

Bob, I would heavily suggest reading the FSAviator Propliner Tutorial at www.calclassic.com. It is a very enlightening document and has a lot of good tips in it. In addition, there's an "FSAviator Archives" in the CalClassic forum that has additional information for various aircraft, including the Connie.

I would not suggest installing any of his flight dynamics into aircraft unless they are released with the airplane (like the CalClassic DC-6's and DC-7's) because his dynamics aren't as good as he likes to make them seem.