Trident 2 Data needed

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RAF_Quantum
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Trident 2 Data needed

Post by RAF_Quantum »

Manufacturer : Hawker Siddley
Model : Trident 2
ICAO Code : TRID
Max Passengers : 126 see note1.
Market value $20,000,000
Dry operating weight : 33,200kgs (see note 2.)
Max zero fuel wt
Max take-off wt : 65,320kgs (see note 2.)
Cargo capacity : (In pax config)
Normal/econ cruise speed : 495kts
Number of engines : 3

note 1. Seating capacities are 97-149. I have gone to midpoint with a roundup to whole rows of 7 abreast

note 2. From aircraft.cfg file
Last edited by RAF_Quantum on 17 May 2006, 20:42, edited 9 times in total.

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Post by PeteP »

ICAO code (60s-90s) was HS21 but has cahnged to TRID in the latest ICAO Doc8643
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DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

John..

I don't have sufficient data on the Tri2 and what I do have comes from the BEA era (probably deep in fuel shortage) so this may not be particularly valid. However, Econ cruise was much lower than 525kts/M0.91 at this point. Cruise below FL250 is listed as 300kt or M0.7 (whichever is reached first) and above FL250, you are directed to chart 6.. Economy Cruise Mach Number. The highest mach number is 0.83 at a little over FL340 (alt increasing with fuel depletion/weight dependant) and the lowest is 0.71 (again, alt increasing with fuel depletion/weight dependant). Having flown this many times (albeit some time ago now).. 300kts will give you everything from the lowest to the highest mach number depending on weight/alt. Most economical alt for Eco Cruise was between FL290-370.. FL310/330 being best at weights above 50,000kg and FL350/370 below 50,000kg.
525Kts (as quoted in HS Trident by Max K-J) is at FL270. DM's Tri2's will almost certainly overspeed at 0.91 (probably above 0.87) :wink:

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RAF_Quantum
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Post by RAF_Quantum »

Hi Dave,

I've been trying to fathom this one as to why FlyNET want this figure. I've got a feeling it's a 'nice to have for info' as at the moment I don't see anything that the quoted speed would have an effect on. Fuel remaining is monitored by the client programme using fsuipc so there are no calculations to be made. I know they are trying to factor in reduced payloads depending on route distance by specific aircraft type but I think that will be way in the future. I'l knock the figures down per your info and go with those.

Rgds

John
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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

Speed must be in knots, and it's there for future use. Specifically, Konny will be adding automatic flighttime function when he integrates the whole system. Thus, you enter the departure and arrival airports, aircraft type, and departure time, and the system will automatically calculate your enroute time and arrival time. He may also add in the ability of the program to adjust arrival times based on winds along the route.

There was also discussion of possibly giving bonuses for pilots who consistently make trips in less than the given en-route time for the flights that he flies.

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Post by DaveB »

Hi John,

Rgr that :wink: For info, the data above is taken from the BEA Trident2 Ops Manual Vol1 (Pilot's check lists and drills). I can't date it specifically but being BEA is a good pointer :smile:

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Post by DaveB »

Chris,

Rgr knots. The chart doesn't list knots specifically (there goes that word again!) as generally, above 300kts aircraft are flown at Mach numbers.. either as a limiting figure or as in this case as a limiting and economical figure.
I'll run the Tri2 up this afternoon and see what pop's out :wink:

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

The Knots TAS, not IAS. Most websites give the Normal and Economy cruise speeds in TAS as part of the performance table. Coincidentally, it's also what you imput in the flightplan as your cruise speed. :)

Like with the Convair, it doesn't matter what altitude you're going to fly
a HMA 240 at, it's cruise speed is 190 knots. The operating handbook used by HMA uses an 1100HP cruise which gives 190 KTAS in 99% of all situations at 99% of the altitudes we fly.

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Post by DaveB »

Understood Chris but where the airline operator specifies Mach number, there can be no misunderstanding :wink:

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

Dave, you're thinking on the pilot side. All of this info we're putting into FlyNET is on the flight planning (dispatch) side of an operation. The information we put in is used for flight plannning purposes (how much payload you can carry, how much fuel you can have, what your range is, how fast you can get there, etc), regardless of how the plane is actually flown from the cockpit. Thus, the numbers in the FM are nearly useless unless it tells what the "normal" TAS cruise or "economy" TAS cruise speeds are.

Also, FlyNET says to use "Economy cruise" where given (again for the planning aspect, you plan the slowest and hope for the fastest).

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