An Observation

[NigelC]

Just done the BAC One Eleven 500 VA routes Gatwick-Rhodes, returning to Luton.

THESE ARE NOT ONE ELEVEN ROUTES!!,

I knew it before I set off, but I thought "Hey, let's see what happens"

First of all, required fuel load is 12.5 tonnes, which is nearly a tonne and a half over full tanks, and due to the payload, you can't get full tanks on anyway, you're limited to about 10.5 tonnes.

Outbound, decided to see how far I could get. Decided to techstop when overhead Kavala, made a poor choice and scraped into Mikonos with less than 900kg left. This is less than Final Reserve Fuel under RW Fuel Planning Procedures (FRF should be 30 mins so should be about 1200kg). This would mean a Company Air Safety Report, a CAA Mandatory Occurence Report, a finding on the next company audit by the CAA and Tea and Biscuits with the Chief Pilot with no Biscuits!

Harking back to my days in BIA Ops(1980s), Mikonos was not even on the plot for the One Eleven, let alone Rhodes. We went as far as Athens and that was a 50% chance of techstop on the return leg (due temp at Athens and prevailing winds). Mikonos was the province of such as Britannia's 737-200s.

On the return, made the decision earlier and went into Friedrichshafen with no probs.

Could I suggest that if Rhodes is to stay on the schedule for the One Eleven, that a techstop is built into the schedule!

N

[Chris Trott]

Nigel, what may be required is a payload limit. EGKK - LGRP is almost exactly 1500nm. The BAC 1-11 500 is nominally capable of a bit over 1900nm with no passengers aboard and full tanks. I would suggest loading maximum fuel and reducing payload accordingly. Remember, if you load too much fuel, the client will force you to offload passengers or payload. This is NOT necessarily a bad thing. Because it's a longer flight, the price of tickets is much higher and thus you've got a better profit margin, allowing for fewer pax to be carried and still make money.

[NigelC]

See what your saying but even with full tanks, the One Eleven is not capable of Rhodes! (except maybe with a payload that ain't worth carrying). I worked for 4 airlines that operated the type and ne'er went there.

Back then, the charter airlines operated on small margins. If you restricted the number of available seats, your seat rate to the charterer went up, X/90 instead of X/119. Mr Charterer gets a quote from Britannia on the 737 which is better seat rate now and books with him. Or with Dan's on a 727, or on any aircraft capable of doing it direct with a full payload.

At BIA, we could compete with the 73s as our aircraft were bought and paid for, so we could offer a rate that matched or bettered the 73 even though it had more seats.

It's a matter of horses for courses, and the One Eleven is a non-runner in the Rhodes Stakes!

N