Trident Fuel Usage

[DaveB]

Hi Dale

Right.. I've just taken the T3 from Marham to Tripoli. I intended taking it to Malta but still had too much fuel in the centre tank and I wanted it to empty to see what happened so continued on until it emptied. Dare I say it.. nothing happend. All 3 engines continued burning from the outers.

Before I took off.. I 'guessed' a bit at what to take out of the centre tank (because I wanted it to empty) so started down the runway with 99.8% each side and 79.7% on the centre (as shown in the payload/fuel page in sim) and throughout the flight, all tanks remained equal.. that is, the pseudo outers were the same and the inners were the same. Landed at Tripoli with 47%, 47%, 0, 47%, 47% showing equating to 8013lbs L/R and nowt in the centre. All engines had burned the same.. 4403kg according to the fuelburn gauges.

There's nothing modded with my model.. it's the latest T3 off Dave's site

I wish I knew what to say mate but I'm stumped. I didn't use the APU or Boost engine at takeoff.. Marham's runway is long enough. All I did for the flight was put it where I wanted it to go.

As an aside.. I gotta say the T3 works a treat in FSX.. not that you'll want to hear this mate It's the first time I've taken it any distance and it did all I expected from it

On with the thinking cap

ATB
DaveB

[Vc Ten]

Hi Mate Thanks for trying to replicate
Did you turn off center tank either when fuel in or when empty
Just flown from Malta to lhr with only fuel in wings but with center tank switched on fuel useage was equal from both wings on landing. But on flicking the port tanks off during flight both port and center engines died (put them back on quickly )
ATB
Dale

[DaveB]

Hello Mate

No.. I didn't touch a thing. All I did was point it in the right direction FS9 was always nervous about tank pumps being switched on and off so unless I know I'm going somewhere which I know won't use max fuel, I set the aircraft up beforehand. The 1-11 is a good example of this. If you let FSA fuel it when it's sat on the ground with default fuel (eg, all tanks full).. the engines will cut if tankage from the centre isn't required and FSA dumps the fuel. The aircraft detects a momentary lack of fuel supply and stops the engines. Therefore with the 1-11.. if I know I'm not gonna need the centre tank, I empty it myself then restart the engines THEN let FSA fuel me up. This only ever happens on the first flight. For the return and subsequent flights.. the engines will remain lit. Now.. this is the 1-11 and FS9 with FSA. I honestly can't speak for the T2/3 or 1-11 in FSX with FSA

Procedurally, I know you'd switch tank pumps off empty tanks but by and large.. FSim handles the fuel for you so when a tank is empty.. it moves automatically to the next in line. This is what I've found anyway

ATB
DaveB

[Vc Ten]

Hi Mate
Spose we all have differing ways of starting client and sim I normally fuel up with the client and then press fly on the client before pressing fly on the sim. Ive thought about having the sim running first then going to the client to fuel Trouble with that is that i would have to come out of full screen to access the client then go back to full screen after. At the point the various scrrens would need to be dragged back to there relevent displays
Anyway Ive got into the habit of having the center tank off until cruise height.(helps pass the time ) and either running it empty and then switching off when low level warning lights, or switching it back off on descent Never have a problem on other models In fact on just flights 737 the sim nags you that fuel is critically low switching off the center tank in ths case stops it flashing up
Only noticed this issue on the trident cos ive only started flying it "properly" Could uninstall acceleration and just load up sp1 and 2 and try that , or just accept the way it is
ATB
Dale

[DaveB]

Hello Mate

You do make yourself busy don't you

I don't think removing ACC and putting SP1 and SP2 back would solve it but you never know. You do still have SP1 installed don't you??

Just in case.. install FSX and run then shutdown.
Install SP1 then run and shutdown.
Install SP2 then run and shutdown. Job Done.
If installing ACC, uninstall SP2 then run and shutdown.
Install ACC then run and shutdown. Job done.
Don't uninstall SP1 if you're running the original version of FSX. Not sure what the heck goes on with 'Gold'. I presume everything is hard coded

I never EVER play with the tanks unless I have to See.. you're making your own problems
ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Dale..

Just to stop you messing.. .. you actually burn the centre tank first so procedurally, leave it alone until it's empty. On the RW aircraft, you had to takeoff with a minimum of 900kg in the centre tank.. UNLESS operating under 'Abnormal' operation. Unless you load fuel yourself, FSA doesn't know this and won't do it. It's been a while but I'm sure FSA loads (if you use autoload) outers then inners then centre.

There is a chart for the T3 (which probably applies in some form to the T2 too) which shows exactly what must be loaded in each tank for a given fuel requirement.. noting that the real aircraft has outers, inners and centre and the model has inners and outers joined (even though DM cleverly added 2 gauges for each side).

If you want to play 'real'.. I can scan the chart for you. What you see for the outers and inners on each side can be combined and added to the models single left/right tanks. The centre.. you load as per the chart

Obviously.. the real aircraft is far more complex but the real aircraft had 3 pilots sitting up front.. not Jack the Lad sat on his own to manage everything which is one reason why the model isn't as complex as the real thing

ATB
DaveB

[Vc Ten]

Cheers Mate Thanks for the good advice
Always try to "improve" things and never satisfied until ive cocked it up alltogether
With regards to "gold" it comes with the 2 standard disks and and extra for acceleration No instructions, and nothing to say to upload sp1 from the web before installing Acceleration I assume its included on the disk Dont know what the acceleration bit does anyway apart from some extra a/c which il never use, well actually have had a flight in the f16
and some extra missions. Dont know if it actually does anything to the flight engine. May uninstall Acceleration ( can do that from windows settings ) and reinstall sp1 and sp2 so its back to as it was Only tried this reinstall with the new disks after the article in pc pilot on the 737 The aircraft is more difficult to start up than it was before. Took me 1/2 hr before it was ready to fly this evening, nearly as long as the friggin flight back home
Glad it doesnt take as long to start the chippy id never get any flying in
ATB
Dale

[DaveB]

Hello Mate

OK.. I'm guessing the 2 'Gold' discs have SP1 coded in. SP2 is coded into ACC. If, as it seems, ACC is a separate entity with the 'Gold' set.. then I can see why it would be good policy to load 'Gold' then run it and close it down before installing ACC. They don't make these things easy do they!

SP2 fixed a gallon of bugs left from SP1 and introduced a proper helicopter engine (flight engine that is).. before which they were pretty much FS9 FD's. The ACC package allows for proper dual engined helicopters.. handy with the Virtavia Chinook (though you can run that as single engine if you wish) and of course.. gives us all the Reno Racer P51's we all love and admire

Startup times are a chore with my system first flight of the day. After that, my hair doesn't grow quite as much Half an hour is a bit off though mate

If you'd like that T3 fuel load chart.. I'll be happy to scan and upload it for you. I always use 'simple' fuel loading at FSA as some of the more complex models have multiple tanks making it a bore to fuel up. By multiple, I mean loads.. not just 3 Also.. I run FS on dual monitors and while this isn't a problem fullscreen with FS9, it IS a problem with FSX so I have to run FSX 'windowed'. It's easy to see the client by simply reducing the FS screen (big overscore button top right or windows key). If I ran FSX fullscreen.. I'd think again about how I accessed the client. They send these things to try us do they not!

Right.. nearly time for 'Body of Proof' on Ch5. See ya later
ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Right.. 'Body of Proof' finished.. Megan won again

I've scanned the T3 fuelling chart and uploaded it HERE

It's 3.4mb and only one page.. scanned at 300dpi to give you a fighting chance of reading it at it's native size so you can print it off for ready use

ATB
DaveB

[dfarrow]

Hi guys , as a ''jack the lad'' on 't panel for 12 years; procedurally Dave B is right , 'cos i remember needing a minimum of 900 kgs in centre for T3s boost eng . We then centre tank dry , for wing bending relief . The inners were then run down , so that needles were parallel with outers . i.e. a 2 to 1 ratio ; then kept them that way .
The fin fuel on T2s , used probably only coming back from Tel Aviv against the wind ; is a very distant memory ...... think we ran centre down a bit and then opened fin fuel switch to let 1200 Kgs , Ls , Galls ? drain into Centre tank ... maybe ! 1985 is a long time ago for this old brain .

rgds dave f .