Aircraft loading times and equipment

[hobby]

Can anyone please tell me how long it takes to unload cargo from an HS748 and a Shorts 330 Sherpa?

The Sherpa can carry 4LD3s or 7CO8 containers but I have absolutely no knowledge of the capacity of such containers nor of the equipment used or time taken to completely load and unload such an aircraft, from chocks in to chocks out.

A Sherpa can also carry two cars, Fiesta size, but how long would it take to load and unload these cars? My only experience was a weekend TA training course cica 1960(?) at Middle Wallop loading and unloading Ferrets and Landrovers from a dummy BEA Argosy- which was very unrepresentative of RAF Argosies - the BEA ones had front doors, the RAF acft did not - as you have all seen with Rick's BEA Argosy

A while back members of the forum were kind enough to ensure that I realised that cargo ops were run to extremely tight schedules with very little leeway at turnaround and exchange points.

I am particularly interested in the operation of cargo networks such as the UK postal net and the USAFE spares operation run from 1984-90 from Zweibrucken using C23As. I have just designed a new panel and modified the acft cfg for the ZH version of the Shorts 330 and UKMil has provided me with a USAFE set of textures.

I would like to build and add a small freight handling piece of scenery to some of my UK2000 scenery airports but I have no practical experience of such real life operations. Any real world information would be greatly appreciated.

[Motormouse]

Shorts 330/360 is in the region of 30 minutes, however that depends on whether or not the load is palletted or loose, LD containers will fit through the side loading door. The Sherpa is a different beastie, only used by US military, don't confuse Mr Zhulisky's fs model with yer actual 330, because its' a Sherpa not a 330.

The Sherpa was made by taking a later 360, cutting its' tail off (ouch!)
and bolting on a twin tail conversion that featured the rear loading ramp.

This is a Sherpa

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1060012/M/

This a 330 (One I actually flew on many a time), notice no ramp,
just the rear baggage hatch hanging down.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0903586/M/

And from memory a 748 on a mail run was about an hour to load/off-load.

The ramp activity during night freight/mail ops was pretty intense

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0453491/M/

ttfn

Pete

[Garry Russell]

Hi Pete

The early Sherpas were 330-UTT (C-23A)

The later ones were modified form 360 with the 330 tail added as you rightfully point out.....but also the extra piece of fuse ahead of the wing in the 360 was taken out.....C-23B Super Sherpa

The result was a 330 with the higher powered engines of the 360, otherwise the same.

It is often missed that the fuse was shortend to 330 spec, that is not mentioned in books.

The C-23A/B Sherpa is a 330 with the Skyvan ramp and the C-23B is not in anyway a 360, after conversion

As you see here it is only the engines that vary in the final product along with 11 windows each side left over from the airline days against two each side on the original C-23.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-23.htm

Garry

[Motormouse]

Hi Pete

The early Sherpas were 330-UTT (C-23A) Garry

Er,not quite, not all UTT versions had a rear ramp.
Some just had the two rear side doors converted for Para dropping.

The result was a 330 with the higher powered engines of the 360, otherwise the same.

From the outside maybe,but 360 also had stronger main gear, different wheels and brakes, and beefed up main structure for the higher AUW.(Landing gear mods were available as a retrofit on 330's)

The C-23A/B Sherpa is a 330 with the Skyvan ramp and the C-23B is not in anyway a 360, after conversion

True enough,but the Skyvan ramp was a little small,later ones had/have a larger bespoke item.

ttfn

Pete


[/quote]

[Garry Russell]

Hi Pete

My main concern is how they comnpare in FS as it has been often said don't use a 330 for a Sherpa as the Sherpa is a 360

The 360 has thicker wing skins etc.but that is of no consequence for FS it is basically a 330, and in no way a 360.

There we some modified to other roles but all were basically 330-UTT

As to beefed up structure some 360's were even more beefed up but again that has no consequence here.

Interesting about the ramp as I didn't think they all had the but could find anything on that.

It would be nice to have an FS Sherpa with troop dropping and hardware comming out the back.

Maybe on day


Garry

[Motormouse]

Hi Pete


It would be nice to have an FS Sherpa with troop dropping and hardware comming out the back.

Maybe on day


Garry

We can't do hardware..but troop dropping is a possibility.....look here,
you'll need both these files

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?Ca ... DLID=36578

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?Ca ... DLID=36446

ttfn

Pete

[DanKH]

hardware comming out the back

I certainly would NOT want any hardware comming out of MY back :shock:

[Garry Russell]

HI Pete

I had a noratlas that spat a 2 CV out the back no parachute.

Mind you you where suppose to do in on the ground.

Also had a JU 52 that para dropped very effective.

That would be a nice addition to FS.X though....maybe one day

But the a Sherpa could at lease deliver on the ground.....



* * * *

DankH :nahnah:

In any case if the hardware relied on windows it wouldn't be going anywhere.

Garry

[hobby]

Thanks everyone.

For Motormouse:

An excellent photo of night time activity on the cargo apron. I spotted numerous 4 wheeled towable trolleys of mail or cargo, a tractor, one BP refuelling tanker plus another tanker towing a secondary fuel trailer and a small towing unit plus aux. power supply units parked at stbd nose of acft. Just what I needed! Thanks.

Also intersesting in the photo of the USAF Sherpa were what appeared to be tail props locked beneath the rear fuselage to stabilise the acft while being loaded on the ground. I had not seen that before. Were such stabilisers used with civilian 330s which did not have thre ramp?

May I ask which airline the yellow/white(?) Shorts 330 G-ZAIC belonged to? I could not identify the owner.

I have been reading information on the Shorts 330, 330-UTT and Sherpa from some pages I copied from JAWA some years ago but I can find no mention of the 360 conversion programme or of removing a fuselage plug from a second hand 360 during conversion. My photocopy is probably from a JAWA prior to the conversion program. Most interesting, one wonders why bother to remove the plug, which might allow more cargo to be carried, unless one has to retain CofG balance.

Once again, many thanks for the gen.

[hobby]

Sorry, for G-ZAIC please read G-ZAPC in the night time apron photo. I should still like to know which airline opertaed that acft.