Plane set-Imperial Airways 1930s: any interest?

[Mike Flight]

Dave,

Not something I have ever set up, but about to rectify. Hope to have some illustrations in place imminently.

many thanks
Mike

[zswobbie1]

Please count me in. I'm very keen on the scenery, being based in Cape Town, as well as prefering the older low's 'n slows. I really enjoy the older Short's.

[adysmith]

Hi Adrian,

I have 'evolved' a technique for astro-nav, which does use the FS/GPS coordinates - and as that is a 'cheat' I am only partly satisfied with it. If you refer to the Russian sextant-model based system, I have tried to use that, and managed to get lost o'er the ocean. It is very complicated - but then so was the technique for converting a sextant measurement into a position fix. Anything diferent would be wonderful to see,

I met a former navigator, Bob Chandler, in my youth (he flew as a navigator 1930 to 1955: started on HP42 et al and ended up on the Comet1) and I recall a memorable comment from him ;"never ask a navigator 'where are we?'' because he hasn't a clue. He knew where you were at the last fix and will know roughly where you are heading." Trying trans-Atlantic navigation revived that very vividly! He was a humorous man - his memoirs "Off the Beam" published in late-60s, are filled with great flying yarns.

Mike

My system uses the FS coordinates, but not exactly! you take the degrees as displayed and for the minutes use the first digit of the minutes (use a leading zero if there should be one) then either a random generated number for the second digit or one of the "decimal minutes" figures as your second minutes figure.

This gives you a position somewhere within about +/- ten to fifteen miles of where you are which is about as good as you would get with a sextant.

I used it several times in years gone by, from Keflavik to Prestwick I forgot to allow for magnetic variation, that became interesting, then from Miami to Bermuda I miss-plotted my position as I changed from one chart to another (by about 60 miles).

If you can get yourself that lost and then get back on track (solid cloud on descent to Bermuda, popped out at 10,000 with the island dead ahead) you can call yourself a navigator!

[Mike Flight]

Pleased to hear of South African interest!

I have modelled flying-boat ops to Durban (S23 destination from mid-37 onwards) and assume earlier ops with landplane (usually AW15 Atalanta) from Jo'burg to Wingfield/Cape Town - officially stopping at Kimberley, but I tend to include one further refuel en route (airline preferred Victoria West, but had Beaufort West as a possible stop too), and I prefer the latter: simply because it is almost exactly 1/2-way between Kimberley and Cape-Town, and it is a lower altitude airport.

I am a Brit with only minimal time in SA, and I delight doing the Beaufort West to Cape Town sector by following the N1 road (I believe they followed the railway, but that is less easy to track that a road in FS, and I think the two are close the whole way). Imperial maps highlight Lainsburg and Touws River as places overflown, so some scenic additions for landmark checks there (use Google Earth to get bespoke church, etc) - and the Cape Vineyard/Hex River section is about as glorious as FS flying can get. (I use FS Global 2010 add-on scenery for the terrain). In 1975 I passed along the route, by rail (and northbound with a snorting condenser loco: my rail-buff pals get jealous!), but it was night-time : I kick myself now for not being able to get through there by day!

Hope to have some screenshots soon - I have a 'rough' Wingfield, actually built on the south end of Ysterplaat: so I use the runway - and I know that is about 1n.m, west of where it should be. Happy to share any scenery files I have created, but need to create a link first.

Any knowledge you have that will correct any of my assumptions certain to be welcomed. I had not expected an SA contact!

Kind regards
Mike

[Mike Flight]

Hi Adrian,

I like that approach - and I likewise take the GPS coords, but truncate them to 1 minute angular distance. My scheme is :

.. once in the cruise phase:
- run at x4 speed (or you never get there in a day!)
- flight plan the route and aim to do a 'fix' at 'waypoints' spaced by 5 deg longitude - about 45-60 mins apart on North Atlantic with 130-150kt machines, so coming up at 11-15min intervals on the sim.
- I pause: press Caps-Z: scribble the GPS coords and %fuel on paper; shut Caps-Z: restart the sim (AP hdg remaining engaged): and turn to the 'nav-table'
- plot position - plot line (actually from where you think you will be 10mins after the fix) to next planned 'waypoint' - deduce track heading (mag var estimation is interesting!), predict time to waypoint
- slow sim to real-time: manually flying adjust heading: re-engage hdg hold on AP: goto x4 speed again

The procedure takes me 2-3 minutes - and Bob said turning a fix into a course change was around a 10-minute job, so I have done it in equivalent time (and hence the 10-min added track distance in the plotting stage). In the minutes left to the next waypoint I do a fuel check - the Caps-Z value is a rounded percentage value - but adequate to plot and check.

Like you - it is fact that getting to a destination is mind-numbingly good!

My first attempt was Foynes to Botwood in an S30 - it was fuel critical: but it was also time critical: I waddled about the planned route so much (less so in latter stages as the mag.varn issues sank in) and arrived just before sunset. I learned the hard way why the flights often left before sunrise and did not give passengers time for a breakfast (or Irish Coffee) at Foynes!

I do like your idea of 'randomising' the fix data - that is compatible with my approach, and I will think about doing that.

I use random number in a spreadsheet of weather data for locations to stop me using the FS default values - (and for getting a despatchers manifest of crew, pax and mail load for the mission). Sometimes the weather 'sucks' - well that is the day you sit and see if the next 'forecast' (although perhaps it should be called a METAR) is better: that means re-opening the spreadsheet and a new random number will have modified everything; and I suggest that take-off is assumed to have been delayed by a period of time (30 or 60 mins) . Recalling my altercation with sunset time at the destination that makes for as much 'realism' as one could ever wish to create.

You have generated plenty of food for thought - very stimulating: glad to have a conversation with someone who has tackled the same issue and shared so much insight.

Many thanks
Mike

[adysmith]

When you get good at it make one small change to all that - don't press pause!

Read it on the fly while the sim is still running

[blanston12]

I went to FSA and submitted for addition the S17, S23 and S30

[Mike Flight]

Adrian - indeed: But I dislike seeing the lat/long readout all the time: will select it - get data - and deselect it - then carry on. I plan to do a long run soon - will let you know how that procedure fits in. (Frankly: I see no problem; a real improvement) Ta Mike

[Mike Flight]

Joe - FSA: is that a South African organisation? All three aircraft are freeware on Avsim or Flightsim, and by Jens Kristensen: a Dane doing UK vintage aircraft. As freeware goes I have great regard for his work. Cheers Mike

[DaveB]

Mike..

FSA is FSAirlines.. it's the VA organisation we belong to
ATB
DaveB