BAC 1-11-200 Performance

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Herkpilot1
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BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Herkpilot1 »

I recently found an Aloha Airlines livery for DM's great 1-11. Aloha was one of the early purchasers and I love to fly the inter island routes in Hawaii. But, trying to fly it in Hawaii on Aloha's (HNL-OGG) routes is almost impossible. At SL and 36 C it just staggers into the air and struggles to make 8-900 fpm climb rate. I finally get to FL100 just in time to start the approach into Kahului. To complicate matters, the overheat lights often come on just at rotate. This is with only 7600 lbs of payload (38 pax) and 8000 lbs of fuel.

Am I missing something? Or is this aircraft just a dog? Perhaps this is the reason they didn't last in the islands. I usually fly the CV 340 and Fairchild F-27, both of which seem to outperform the 1-11 by quite a margin. Flying in cooler weather on the mainland it seems to be a delightful aircraft to hand fly and maneuver so I hope I'm just missing something in the Hot wx procedures.

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by DaveB »

Hiya Herkpilot :hello:

Yup.. Aloha ended up with 3 215AU's laid out in 79 seat, one class config. Delivered from Apr '66 and WFS Mar/Apr '69. They had an option on a 4th but this was never taken up. Three years service life for a brand new aircraft is far from exhaustive despite their 'expected' high T/O-landing cycle so it may just be that the 200's were not best suited to that sort of operating environment. I don't think the same criticism could be aimed at the 400's as these were tested extensively in hot/high climates on rough strips and showed excellent performance.

You didn't say which sim you're using it in mate.
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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by DaveB »

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I've just installed the 200 into FS9 and tried the HNL-OGG flight. I used the default load (7600lbs plus full tanks) and found it's performance quite adequate while not being exactly stellar! :lol: Had no real problem getting well above FL100. In fact, on the outbound leg.. I went too high making the descent slightly untidy. I then flew the return and stopped at a little above FL140 which seemed more than enough for such a short hop. Had to make sure the 'Top Temp' switches were made (via the VC) to stop frying the engines. RW weather (using ASA) wasn't as high as 36deg.. more like 28deg but it was still 20deg at FL100.
TBH.. I've rarely flown the 200's.. the 500/510ED being more my kind of thing but this was fun nonetheless. It'd be interesting to setup FSNavigator again to see how she'd go under full AP :cpu:

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Effoh »

Does the -200 have water injection Dave? Might be worth a wee bit extra oomph?
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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by DaveB »

A good point Colin. Water Injection should give it a little more pep under those conditions :thumbsup:

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Herkpilot1 »

Thanks for all the ideas, as I usually fly in 2D, I completely overlooked the "Top Temp" switches. With the water on they seem to make quite a difference, although it still makes me wonder how they operated from the 4600 foot runway at the old Kona airfield. I also remembered the old trick of turning off the A/C packs just before T/O for every last bit of thrust. I'm still not sure that I understand the thrust gauges and their indications. Are there any performance charts available for this aircraft? I'm really a fly by the numbers type and I like to explore the limits.

As a side note, a BAC (and former Bristol and RAF) test pilot, Willy Williamson, delivered the first aircraft from the Paris Air show to Honolulu, setting several records. He was offered and accepted a job as Director of Flight Operations at Aloha.

Thanks again for the help.

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Herkpilot1 »

Thanks for the help all. Found the "top temp" switches in the VC (I don't fly in VC) and along with the water injection, all seems to be operating as it should. It still climbs in a rather leisurely manner however. Flying in Hawaii at least gives the comfort of departures over water so the climb rate is not that important. The one performance document I found recommends 1500 fpm up to FL160 then 1200 to FL 240. I understand that the early DC9 and B737 didn't do much better. Other than the higher climb airspeed, the turboprops do as well if not better. For two years, Aloha operated their 1-11s from the old Kona airport which had been lengthened to 4600 feet for jets. Must have been real sporty!

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Bjoern »

8000 lbs of fuel seem a bit much for such a short trip.


Nothing like a challenging departure though. :welldone:

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Aharon »

I did not even know Aloha airline operated BAC 1-11.

Where is the Aloha livery that you said you found, please?

Thanks,

Aharon

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Re: BAC 1-11-200 Performance

Post by Herkpilot1 »

The file is aloha1112.zip at Flightsim.com Aloha purchased two new -200s in 1966. Hawaiian also ordered 1-11s but cancelled that order in favor of DC-9-10s. When Hawaiian got DC-9-30s in 1968, Aloha traded the 1-11s for 737-200s. At one point in the early 60s, both airlines operated the Viscount.

For more than 50 years, the competition between the two carriers was fierce. Due to extremely rough waters surrounding the islands, there has never been a successful ferry service so the airlines united the islands of the state. It makes for great flying, short hops with multiple legs and generally good weather.

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