Sound Barrier

Heron1B · Post by **Heron1B** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:17

G'day Guys,

Just been watching the classic British Movie "The Sound Barrier" (1952).

Question, did the Supermarine Swift ever do real world testing with regards to the speed of sound or is that movie world stuff?.

Can remember speed trails taking place.

Has the movie always been black and white? Have a feeling the original was in colour.

Did the Swift ever enter military service?

Cheers,

DelF

Heron1B · Post by **Heron1B** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:35

Just remembered, the late Mike Lithgow as the test pilot that flew the Swift during those speed trials.

Also the Swift having some high altitude stability problems and being withdrawn from service in favour of the Hawker Hunter?

Cheers,

DelF.

John · Post by **John** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:40

I think the film was always in black and white

Regards

John

Post by **Bridon Bear** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:47

The Swift in the film was the second prototype (VV119) and was in the guise of Prometheus in the film. Actually it was a little unusal as the aircraft was still under test.

The sound barrier thing was I suspect film fiction as the Swift was only capable of around 660 mph at sea level although this was increased on later marks using re-heat by Mike Lithgow with a MkIV (WK198) who on 26th September 1953 attained 735.7 mph at Tripoli North Africa.

The film was not in colour but Black & White....however, they did use Infra Red film for the high altitude shots which gave the sharp contrast and clarity for the film.

Super film though....I have a copy on DVD

Regards.

Bridon Bear

Post by **DaveB** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:51

A bit of a mish-mosh of a history behind it Derek does the Swift. :roll:

In answer to your first question.. On Sept 25 1953, LtCdr M.J. Lithgow - flying the prototype Mk4, WK198.. broke the world speed record set only 18 days earlier by Neville Duke in the Hunter so yes, it did play a part in breaking speed records. As it happens, this record was beaten 8 days later by the Douglas XF4D-1 Skyray!! Heady days!!

The Swift did enter RAF service too. I can find details of 56 Sqn and No1 Guided Weapons Development Sqn at Valley plus it apparently served with two squadrons of the 2nd Tactical Air Force in Germany.

In any event.. it was far from the success that had been hoped for.

ATB

DaveB :tab:

AndyG · Post by **AndyG** » 29 Apr 2006, 16:02

Filling in a few of the details on Dave's post.

The Swift F1 served for a while with 56 Squadron; some F2s served as well. It had replaced the Meteor 8 but, when the various problems were encountered, it was itself replaced - by the Meteor 8!

The Swift FR5 served, with some success, with 2 Sqn and 79 Sqn (or 4/79 Sqn at one point). The Swift F7 served with the GWDS for Fireflash missile trials - there was a project a year or so back to restore an F7 to flight status, not sure what's happening at the moment.

AndyG

Nigel H-J · Post by **Nigel H-J** » 29 Apr 2006, 17:26

Delf

Just did some research on the Supermarine Swift for you.

The Swift was rushed into service in 1954 as the RAF feared it was being out performed by almost every major airforce. It was restricted to a maximum altitude of 25,000ft as it had serious control problems above this height. The engine could surge with or without firing its guns and its electrically actuated tailplane had a tendancy to runaway after take-off.

Following two fatal accidents the Swifts were grounded and several weeks later cleared for limited flying which was again suspended after two more fatal crashes.

Supermarine tried to improve the aircraft, but the Swifts accident rate grew to something as high as 21 per 10,000 flying hours. It was soon phased out as a fighter but then re-appeared later in the fighter-recce role.

Hope this helps

Regards Nigel

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:34

I always find Damien Burke's site useful for Cold War era military aircraft:

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk ... story.html

britishtourer · Post by **britishtourer** » 30 Apr 2006, 11:37

Has anyone ever heard of the Miles M.52? It was Britains machine for its own sound barrier challenge. However we gave up and gave the info to the yanks who copied the basic design of the Miles but put a much simpler rocket engine in, rather than the jet that was to be fitted to the Miles because of Frank Whittles persistence.

That first venture at the speed of sound could have been ours...

AndyG · Post by **AndyG** » 30 Apr 2006, 11:51

britishtourer wrote:Has anyone ever heard of the Miles M.52? It was Britains machine for its own sound barrier challenge. However we gave up and gave the info to the yanks who copied the basic design of the Miles but put a much simpler rocket engine in, rather than the jet that was to be fitted to the Miles because of Frank Whittles persistence.

That first venture at the speed of sound could have been ours...

Not quite as simple as that. In all likelihood the M52, as designed, would probably not been able to go supersonic, as the engines proposed did just not have the poke (technical term

); I guess a solution would have been found (using a Nene instead?), but the funding just wasn't there. Some r/c models with rocket engines were later dropped from Mossies, and one reached M1.3, so the basic concept was obviously sound.

The Americans had already been working on the XS-1, and there is no evidence that they 'copied the basic design'; however, Miles Aircraft were intending to use an all flying tail, and it seems the Bell team did use this concept as it overcame some major problems they were having.

BTW, this is one 'the list'!

AndyG