New Seamew

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hobby
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new seamew

Post by hobby »

I have spent condsiderable time modifying the aircraft cfg file of the original Ito aircraft.

The specs for the real aircraft are:Source 'Air Pictorial - Jan 1999 - pages 37-42.

Powerplant; one 1590 HP (1186 kW) AS Mamba ASMa.6 turboprop

Span: 55ft
Wing area 585 sq ft
Aspect ration: 5.17:1
Length: 41ft 0ins

Track: 12ft 10ins
Height: 13ft 5ins

Weights: Empty 9,795lbs
GrossWt 14,400lbs
Flying wt for carrier quals=13,400lbs.

Performance: Take off speed=60.7kts
Continuous cruise at Sea Level: 196kts
Cruise speed at 10,000ft: 176kts
Patrol speed=120kt for 4 hours
Rate of Climb=1600ft/min at SL & 750ft/min at 10,000ft
Range 750miles
Max speed 235kts.

Target approach speed=70kts

Although much lighter this aircraft is about the same size as a Gannet which had two Mambas!!

Armament; Mk30 Air dropped torpedoes, rockets, smoke markers up to 1840lbs in weight.
real aircraft first flight 1953, 24 built, 1957 White paper forced cancellation of of RN & RAF orders.
You will find that Ito's acft has incorrect measurements, fuel capacities, ROC and does not have a turboprop engine.

The AS1 was to be used from Escort Carriers, a la Swordfish, and shore bases by the RNVR.

The RAF Coastal Command MR2 a/c were to be flown from shore bases on inshore anti sub and patrol work. They lacked power folding wings of the carrier version and had larger wheels.

After hours of mods I did manange to land on a carrier USS Nimitz with no hook and also take off at the carrier trials weight without using the catapult.

I have not been able to achieve the 60kts take off speed, the best I can do is about 90kts at lift off, nor can I obtain the carrier approach speed of 70kts although I can achieve an approach speed and rate of descent of 600ft/min to touch down in nil wind at 75kts. Flying at 120 kts sustained patrol speed is quite difficult in level flight.

Kevin
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Post by Kevin »

Hobby,

You're only halfway there if you've modified only the 'aircraft.cfg' file.

To complete the performance changes necessary, you'll also need to modify the '.air' file. Amongst other things, the aircraft handling derivatives are in there, and if this is another 'Ito standard' .air file, it will be singularly inappropriate to the Seamew.

As Brian indicates, more data is needed on how this aeroplane flew from the pilot's point of view. Looks can be misleading: the Seamew looks like a very big, docile light aeroplane but it was designed as a carrier-borne combat aircraft. Did it fly like a Lysander/Pioneer or like a Gannet, or was it different from both classes? That's what we need to know.

Cheers,

Kevin

Algae
Chipmunk
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Post by Algae »

what site can i get it from and does it ahve a vc???


thnks

hobby
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Location: UK

New Shorts Seamew

Post by hobby »

For Kevin: I wish that I was able to modify the AIR file but I am not able to do so. I really would not know where to start.

Like many other enthusiasts I was unable to train as a real world pilot.

I have no idea how the Seamew flew from a pilot's point of view but it is an aircraft that is interesting for it is one of the 'save weight, make it simple to build and maintain' types along with the Folland Gnat F1 and MB5.

Perhaps there is a real world test pilot out there who might care to comment.

From the 'Air Pictorial' article mentioned above Shorts were unable to persuade the aircraft to go faster than 280kts and to do that it had to be put into a vertical dive!!! The carrier approach speed of 70kts was higher than wished because at below that speed the aileron response was not good enough to overcome the turbulence at the round down and the funnel wake. A crash on landing after the first flight of the prototype pointed out that the elevator response at slow speeds was dreadful, the solution adopted was leading edge fixed slats at mid span and letterbox slots in the flaps. The controls were said to be badly harmonised and over balanced.

This does not make good reading for an aircraft which would have to fly in North Atlantic weather, possibly from converted oil tankers or merchant ships. A real flying 'piglet' at least in prototype form. Nevertheless two aircraft completed one takeoff every six minutes from HMS Warrior, 200 takeoffs and landings in twenty hours plus 50 catapult launches with some unserviceability and one aircraft with a seized engine!! Pretty intensive trials with very hard worked aircraft. May 1956 saw the aircraft undertake a 5,000 mile sales tour of Yugoslavia, Italy and Germany but no country ordered the aircraft.

Since it was primarily destined for 1954+ RNVR crews aboard small Escort carriers it had to be relatively simple to fly with the minimum of equipment to enable it to function. It would appear to me that Shorts were unable to develop the aircraft to meet the demands of operating in the harsh North Atlantic theatre and the 1957 Defence White Paper - 'no further manned aircraft will be designed for the RAF' and which also led to the disbandment of the Air Branch of the RNVR, as well as the advances in helicopter design during the 1950s made further efforts with the Shorts Seamew pointless.

I do understand the point that Kevin raised regarding 'did it fly like a Gannet or like a pioneer' - I just do not know.

I have posted on this forum all the information that I have at present on the Shorts Seamew.

Perhaps another member has another old aeronautical magazine cutting or article that could help?

briwith
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Post by briwith »

Thanks for the data Hobby - I'm on the case but it may take a while as I am quite busy at the moment.

I'll have a good look at the dimensions and the performance data provided and make a few decisions based on my flying experience to come up with something which may or may not be like a Seamew's handling :worried: Keep your fingers crossed, its one of those horrible turbo-props :lol:

ATB,

Brian W

TraceyR
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Seamew Accident at Short Brothers and Harland Air Dispaly

Post by TraceyR »

While it is true that the test pilot responsible for the Seamew project was killed at the Shorts Air Display in 1956, he was alone in the aircraft at the time (so no was crew killed with him) and the accident did not occur during a slow roll. If you can find a copy of the film "The Uncle Jack" by Hollywood Films, you can see the original Shorts footage of the crash. The accident board's conclusion was that the cause was a G-stall. I find this unconvincing, since no-one knew the aircraft better that the test pilot concerned (Sqn. Ldr. Wally Runciman, AFC DFM), who had flown Stirlings and Mosquitos during WWII and had later attended the ETPS at Farnborough. There were unconfirmed rumours of problems with the elevators in the week prior to the fatal crash, but in view of the commercial pressures at the time, it may have been expedient for the cause to have been put down to 'pilot error'.

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TSR2
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Post by TSR2 »

Hi Tracey, and welcome! Nice to have another girl on the forum to keep us in check. :smile:

Interesting Airplane and history that goes with it. I'm assuming the air display your refering to was at the factory in Belfast?

Cheers
Ben.:tunes:

ImageImageImage

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Trev Clark
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Post by Trev Clark »

Welcome Tracey, with a knowledge of historical aviation like yours, gender is irrelevant. It is very interesting post and as I not not heard of that film :shock: , I am off to google it now :cpu:
ATB Trev

511Flyer
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Did it fly like a Gannet?

Post by 511Flyer »

Quite by accident, opening the cockpit in flight, I found that it will fly with the wings folded. All manoeuvres were carried out, including landing.

Image


Dennis.

Myles
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Post by Myles »

The original X-Wing fighter? :lol:

Myles

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