First Project Problems

A quiet place for budding model makers to share thoughts, get answers to questions and request and share references.

Moderators: The Ministry, Guru's

Post Reply
tekman
Meteor
Meteor
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 13:21
Location: London

First Project Problems

Post by tekman »

Good day to you all,
I am about three quarters the way through my first aircraft project with a mixture of FSDS 2 and ver 3 and inevitably run into various issues as I've been learning the program.

I have basically three issues at present that need addressing, of which engine shaping is the first and I was wondering if some kind souls would assist in solving this and the challenges below for me.

My aim is to concentrate purely on British aircraft that have either not been modelled before or are not completely compatible with FS2004. This first project of mine I'd like to keep under wraps for now, at least until I can get some outside testing done.
I have contacted with various degrees of success some people who have kindly given me guidance, but have yet to have joined any forums due to the fact that I don't have a proper Internet connection, ie - I use a mobile phone (sad I know). I've got to that stage in the project when words of wisdom are required.

Derek Palmer is one person I would like to contact for shaping advice regarding the Gipsy Queen engines he has used for his De havilland Dove model. From my point of view I would really like to use the FSP part file he created for his Dove but I guess that would not teach me much about shaping, though it would save me a bit of time. Derek, if you are reading this, would you be kind enough to contact me please, even if only through this forum. Thanks

The other concerns I have are regarding 2 animation issues.

Naming conventions for a multi part main gear assembly and how to create this mult ipart animation and the rather different type of flap movement though not Fowler style is similar in operation. The flap movement I am trying to achieve involves initially a slight vertical drop movement then the flaps move aft of the trailing edge then they should be active for the various angles required. I looked at Rick Pipers Herald as an example and have tried experimenting with an animation for this and sort of got it to work, but again the naming convention issue comes into the fore along with the correct number of animation frames which I'll have to address at the time.

Texturing should be fun when I get around to doing this properly. Like a lot of people I'm learning this from the ground up and am enjoying every frustrating moment of it. It amazes me how much time and effort goes into producing these models and I now fully appreciate the intensity this requires. A real labour of love.

Finally, if anyone is kind enough to assist me with any of the above it would be sincerely appreciated as I have no intention of giving up on this as I have many other project ideas mulling around in the old grey matter.

Regards

Peter :worried:
DispatchDragon
Battle of Britain
Battle of Britain
Posts: 4925
Joined: 23 Feb 2005, 01:18
Location: On the corner of walk and dont walk somewhere on US1
Contact:

Post by DispatchDragon »

Welcome Peter

I would send Derek a PM however hes in the middle of moving house at present so it may be a short while befoer you get an answer. Dont despair
the forum really needs more builders so I am suer you will get support
BTW just what are you building with GQs?????


Leif
Image
Rick Piper
The Gurus
Posts: 4712
Joined: 18 Jun 2004, 17:20
Location: In front of screen learning 3ds max :/ ...............Done it :)

Post by Rick Piper »

Hi Peter

Shaping is not easy when you first start.

I tend to start with a tube of for example 32 sides.

one cross section at each end.

Shape the front cross section to the right front on profile
then shape the rear cross section to whatever profile the rear
should be (not the rear tip obviously) slightly further forward where shape is known.

Then add a cross section between the 2 you have and shape for the centre.

After that keep adding new cross sections till you have them where you need them (keep to as few as possible though) to get shape.

Flaps:
Only use the std automatically animated flap tag for std type hinged flaps that don't slide. l_flap & r_flap are the names for std auto animated flaps
they take their angles from the aircraft.cfg.

Sliding flaps:
Don't bother with the l_flap_key or r_flap_key as they are far too jerky in operation.

use the l_pct_trail_edge_flap & r_pct_trail_edge_flap tags
as these are smooth as silk once you have keyframed them
Keyframe 0 is up
Keyframe 100 is down

if you have 3 settings of say 0, 15, 30

corresponding frames to animate are 0 , 50, 100.

Gear is easy

l_gear.upper
l_gear.lower (parent is l_gear.upper)
l_tire (parent is l_gear.lower)

don't bother with l_tire_blurred unless you aircraft needs more than 120 kts to get airbourne as it's a waste of polys.

use the above part names and you should be ok as they are correct for FSDS3.

I hope this is of use ?.

Below are my 2 fav links when i'm stuck.(which believe it or not still happens far too often)

http://www.freeflightdesign.com/
http://www.FSPlaza.com/

Regards
Rick :smile:
tekman
Meteor
Meteor
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 13:21
Location: London

Post by tekman »

[quote="Rick Piper"]Hi Peter

Shaping is not easy when you first start.

I tend to start with a tube of for example 32 sides.

------------------------------------------------------

Hi Rick, thank you for kindly responding. :smile:
If you'll bear with me on this I'd like to cover the points you raised please.

Basic shaping I seem to have got the hang of but of course there's always room for improvement and my first model is not going to set the world of flight simulation on fire but I hope when I eventually do decide to upload once completed that it will be a fairly faithful reproduction.

I mentioned in my first post I was having problems shaping a Gipsy Queen engine, the basic shape is not an issue it's merely the curvature at the front of the nacelle with what I think is the radiator cut out I'm having problems with. I've tried the boolean approach, my my that's a fun tool to get to grips with. It seems so promising at first yet fails to deliver until you get a better understanding of it's usage.


I read about the l_pct_trail_edge_flap & r_pct_trail_edge_flap tags in an article relating to GMAX a while ago and have tried this but I guess I've yet to work out the extra frames of animation required for sliding the flaps rearwards to the trailing edge of the wing, this is of course regardless of any actual flap operation. I thought it would be a keyframed job rather than using stock animation. Couldn't be that simple.

It's funny you know I used the standard gear animation for the nosewheel and sure it is simple once you know how, but the main gear is a different issue as it's a scissor action cart made up of a drag strut that requires just an up and down movement an upper gear that breaks halfway down so that the gear rotates forward. It's easier to show you a scribble of it really. Perhaps I have to create and animate some pivot points or something. Can't be that difficult I'm sure I've seen it on the various crafts available.

Thanks for the links I have heard of them yet rarely get a chance to visit many sites as I'm too tied up with this project at the moment.

Oh yeah, how are you getting on with the Messenger, it looked really good from the screen shot. Pity you didn't do a gemini as I think I've got cockpit detail of that somewhere. Last month's Aeroplane magazine or the previous months issue had a good spread on that.

Anyway thanks again Rick and yes I still would like to see a Tay Viscount LOL!

Cheers

Peter
DaveB
The Ministry
Posts: 30457
Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
Contact:

Post by DaveB »

Peter wrote:
Anyway thanks again Rick and yes I still would like to see a Tay Viscount LOL!
Oh dear me Peter! :roll: Now you've done it!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Story time...
Rick would never do a Tay Viscount as he 'said' he knew little about jets and in any case, DM did the jets! Flip the coin again and DM wouldn't do a Tay Viscount as, although he did jets.. Rick had already done the Viscount :shock:

Of course.. since then, Rick has made the rather lovely JP5 and Meatbox so he's now reasonably well versed in the jet side of things. We all live in hope Peter :wink:

Good luck with the project btw :thumbsup:

ATB

DaveB :tab:
ImageImage
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
tekman
Meteor
Meteor
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 13:21
Location: London

TAY TAY and Thrice TAY

Post by tekman »

Oh dear me Peter! :roll: Now you've done it!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Dave,
Have I hit a bit of a raw nerve perhaps, Thanks for the Jackanory btw.

Certainly food for thought though. Now that I appreciate the time it takes to do these projects a possible Tay from my stable seems highly unlikely afterall I wouldn't want to step on anybody's toes and cutting my nose to spite my face doesn't seem like a very sensible thing to do as these really are early days for me still. LOL
Thanks for your support though
Garry Russell
The Ministry
Posts: 27180
Joined: 29 Jan 2005, 00:53
Location: On the other side of the wall

Post by Garry Russell »

The Tay Viscount was the second prototype.

It had already been realised that they could never sell the Viscount without major redesign so it was used as a test bed.

The V.700 that followed was 40 percent bigger, capacity wise

Apart from a few systems and things like portholes there is nothing in common with the Viscount we know

The V.700 was longer with greater span a larger tail and different inner engine and main undercarriage arrangement. On top of that The Tay version had yet another form of main undercarriage.

Along with a different rear cockpit window arrangement even as a visual there is nothing in common.

So it would need a whole new model, the V.630 and the V.663 (Tay Viscount) are not the same as any production machine.

It is not a case of taking a standard Viscount and replacing the Darts with Tays.

Garry
Garry

Image

"In the world of virtual reality things are not always what they seem."
Vixus
Victor
Victor
Posts: 240
Joined: 01 Dec 2005, 11:59

Post by Vixus »

I've just started my first model. I have no clue how to go about it, so I made a sphere for the cockpit, shaped it till it looked relatively fine, then added a tube for the inner engine/fuselage, and a tube for the outer... messy.
Image
FelixFFDS
Meteor
Meteor
Posts: 58
Joined: 25 Nov 2004, 23:21
Contact:

Post by FelixFFDS »

Vixus wrote:I've just started my first model. I have no clue how to go about it, so I made a sphere for the cockpit, shaped it till it looked relatively fine, then added a tube for the inner engine/fuselage, and a tube for the outer... messy.
What are you building? What program are you building it with?
Felix/FFDS
Vixus
Victor
Victor
Posts: 240
Joined: 01 Dec 2005, 11:59

Post by Vixus »

Remember? Optica on GMAX. :D
I've been on FFDS.
Image
Post Reply