Elevator Sensitivity

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Tomliner
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Elevator Sensitivity

Post by Tomliner »

I readily admit to not being the most experienced flightsim user but I have always felt that pitch is too sensitive both in FS2004 and FS2002.I use a CH Pro yoke and used to use a MS sidewinder2 joystick which had the same problem.I have played around in settings and FSUIPC but have never seemed to correct the problem.Am I missing something or is it just my imagination?Perhaps some of you experts can come up with something.Thanks guys in anticipation.ATB EricT :think:
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Garry Russell
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Post by Garry Russell »

Hi Eric

Is the Aeroplane trimmed properly?

Garry
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DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

Ah.. asking for experts rules me out Eric but I'll add a tanners worth anyway :lol:

I'm surprised you find pitch OTT using a CH Yoke mate as these tend to be slower than their joystick counterparts. That said, a lot of models show massively sensitive elevator control for a number of reasons. If the chap making the model has a 'sluggish' system or has massive null-zones set on his control device, he'll make the model to react in a normal fashion which, for those with 'standard' setups will cause the model to over-react.

Some of this can be dialled out by tweaking the [Flight Tuning] section in the aircraft.cfg and for many models, only minor changes need to be made to get a satisfactory result. The danger of changing the elevator_effectiveness in the aircraft.cfg that if too big a change is made.. you can quite easily find yourself out of trim adjustment.. the trim tabs effectively running off the gearing. The best way to cure the problem is to change the appropriate line in the airfile and for this.. I summon up the help of the Guru's or Brian Withers (who probably dreads my emails now) :lol:

So.. if a model is only slightly over sensitive, you can probably get away with changing the elevator_effectiveness in the [Flight Tuning] section (dirty but often effective) but for any more than this, you really need to know where to look in the airfile and have something like AirED to enable you to look in there. It's a scarey place, not for the uninitiated and needs more than a modicum of knowledge to use :wink:

ATB

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Tomliner
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Elevator Sensitivity

Post by Tomliner »

Hi Gary,Yes I think so.It may be my imagination but I feel that the default aircraft are the worst.Aircraft such as the PMDG 737 or Ricks 748 and DelP's dove seem to be better.I also use the DC6 from Tom Gibson's Calclassic and the MAAM DC3 which seems too sensitive.Could it be to do with the flight models?I will play around with the adjustments again tomorrow to try and improve them.Best Wishes EricT
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Kevin Farnell
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Post by Kevin Farnell »

I've experinced similar problems, not only with the CH Pro Yoke, but also with CH Pro Pedals (rudder).
I've used CH Control Manager, but have never been totally happy with the results.
I notice that alterations in settings can be made in both FS9 and/or Control manager and I find this most confusing.
I have not yet found a guide that explains which settings to use, or what adjustments to make.
Like Tomliner, I have found that the 'better' produced aircraft (eg DM's VC-10 etc) have a much more natural 'heavy' feel to them.

Anyone help?

Regards

Kevin
DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

Kevin wrote:
Like Tomliner, I have found that the 'better' produced aircraft (eg DM's VC-10 etc) have a much more natural 'heavy' feel to them.
This is not by accident Kevin :wink:

Doesn't need qualifying :thumbsup:

ATB

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Kimber
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Post by Kimber »

I have all custom built controllers, and have to play with the
flight tuning on most aircraft I fly!! It works fine, do .25 steps
and it will help!!

Because of the extended travel Brad builds in, I need to set
my evevator and ailerions on 3 and my rudder on .75!!
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airboatr

Post by airboatr »

Kevin Farnell wrote:I've experinced similar problems, not only with the CH Pro Yoke, but also with CH Pro Pedals (rudder).
I've used CH Control Manager, but have never been totally happy with the results.
I notice that alterations in settings can be made in both FS9 and/or Control manager and I find this most confusing.
I have not yet found a guide that explains which settings to use, or what adjustments to make.
Like Tomliner, I have found that the 'better' produced aircraft (eg DM's VC-10 etc) have a much more natural 'heavy' feel to them.

Anyone help
Regards

Kevin
Hi Kevin
read this thoughly first, and then correlate it to what your using

I have a saitek x52 (I like the helos too) and a steering wheel with peddles
in a driving sim I like to play .
I set the peddles to work seperatly so one is gas and the other the brake ......I set that preferance in the control panel.
and then in the game
I ASSIGN Whichever peddle I want to be the gas or brake. either one It's my choice.
BUT.....
In FS i want to use the pedels for rudder controls
so I open the control panel again but uncheck the box for seperate peddles
Now they are an axis
then I go into FS and ASSIGN the peddles to work the rudder
( in my case I also have ASSIGN a new axis on the peddles)



Assigning the buttons or which axis I want to use to control the aircraft is Done in the game
the control panel options give me the Power to what FS will see as available controls.
and then I get to PERSONALIZE it to my liking.
:-$ (you know of course you can assign the yoke to control the ruder and visa versa ) Not that you would
I hope this helps
remember
Control Panel Whats available to the game
Game Contoller Options personalize the buttons or axis available the game sees
cstorey
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Post by cstorey »

Tomliner - I know exactly the difficulty you talk about. My own view is that it is not elevator sensitivity which is the real problem, but the grossly oversensitive elevator trim which is present inthe default models. This makes it almost impossible to fly level under manual control

This oversensitivity is not present on good flight models - try the Trident , VC 10 and 748s available from our resident modellers. Thus it is likely to be the flight model which requires alteration rather than your control settings

Maybe our resident modellers can offer guidance


FWIW Chris
briwith
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Post by briwith »

IMO, the major problem for FDE designers is that we have no idea what control device "customers" will use with FS9 or how it will be set up. Furthermore, the realism sliders in the Aircraft menu can also greatly affect handling.

I tend to set all the parameters in the .air and .cfg files to their real values and then "massage" the control effectiveness to give a "realistic" maximum effect to each control surface. At least I know then that with full control the aircraft model will behave sensibly (in general, bigger aircraft will react more slowly giving a heavy "feel"). Given that the control angles, weight and inertia are all set correctly, the rest of the handling should be about right.

Elevator trim also plays a major part in defining handling in FS9 - perhaps too much. I have not been able to come up with a satisfactory way of determining elevator trim sensitivity other than to make sure that any published trim setting for take-off works correctly and that sufficient trim authority is available to cater for all aircraft configurations within the flight envelope. This procedure usally gives a range of sensitivity from which I choose based on any comments in the manuals and my flying experience.

Again IMO, the best way to tackle a model that does work very well on your system is to check that your joystick/yoke calibration is not set to some "way-out" values, check that the realism sliders in the aircraft menu are fully to the right, and then use the [flight tuning] section of the aircraft.cfg file to make the necessary adjustments to the handling. If the elevators seem over-sensitive, try reducing the elevator effectiveness to 0.9 and increasing the pitch stability to 1.2. You can experiment fairly safely with the [flight tuning] section because everthing is easily reset to 1.0 but the same is not true of the rest of the aircraft.cfg file and the .air file where some changes can have drastic results. You can also reduce elevator trim sensitivity in the [flight tuning] section but make sure you leave enough to cope with max speed and the landing approach. Whatever you do - make a back-up first :wink:

Finally, just bear in mind that some aircraft can be challenging to flight accurately, especially within the limitations of a PC simulation. If you make all your aircraft less sensitive, they may all end up "feeling" the same and a bit boring.

ATB,

Brian
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