Come the revolution...

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DarrenL
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DarrenL »

A suitable protest would be to park outside their offices with the windows open on the car and the radio on full.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=W1T+3AB ... 1,,0,-4.76
Garry Russell
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by Garry Russell »

I would have thought then those licence conditions covered it and the PRS are trying it on
Garry

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DaveB
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DaveB »

:lol: :lol: I like Marks suggestion ;)

At the crux of the matter is what constitutes a 'Public' place. The PRS maintain that a hotel room or guest room is considered a public place. However, common sense dictates that a guest room is NOT a public place. The only people who have access to it are the guest themselves and the owner/manager of the business who will invariably have a pass key. Believe me, I have no issue with a licence being required for playing the radio or any sort of music in 'Public' areas.. a restaurant/hotel lobby/the pub as piped music. I don't like it but accept it. I do find exception to the fact that PRS consider guest rooms as 'public' places because they obviously are not.

If this were a simple case of saying that you can't have a radio alarm in a guest room, that would be bad enough and ridiculous but it's not. This all stems from the fact that jingles played on the box (look at Morrisons for example who play Take That in their ad's) is considered as requiring a licence! Quite frankly, it's ridiculous. It's not a case of chasing royalties for hard done to artists.. it's complete BLX. We already pay for a TV licence and this should, in my opinion, cover what is broadcast by the broadcaster. It's nonsense for a-n-other organisation to say that music is played on TV so we have to buy another licence. Where would the world be if this same ethic were applied to every aspect of life??

ATB
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Tako_Kichi
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by Tako_Kichi »

DaveB wrote:Where would the world be if this same ethic were applied to every aspect of life??
Ahh but it is Dave! Take this example:

A guy works for a living and pays income tax to H.M. Gov.

He then has to pay extra taxes on everything he buys in the form of VAT and in many cases he pays additional taxes as well as the VAT in the form of Road Tax for the car, duty on the fuel, duty on any booze he drinks, duty on anything imported into the country etc., etc., etc.

How many bites of the cherry does the d@mn government want? :dunno: :rant:

I will state however that sometimes the lunacy can work in reverse.

I became ill 10+ years ago with a life altering illness that meant I could no longer work a regular job. As a result I had to apply for a disability pension in order to survive which barely covers my outgoings for housing, heat and food. In fact many times the money runs out before the month does and we have to go for several days with zero money in the bank and zero in our pockets until the next payment is deposited. Each year I am required to file a tax report to the Canadian Government stating what I received in the way of 'income' and as I don't have any other than my disability pension I am not required to pay income tax....but...as my 'income' is less than the cut-off amount I am entitled to claim a tax rebate on taxes I never paid in the first place (other than our equivalent of VAT) which amounts to several hundred dollars per year! 8)

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world I tell ya! :agree:
Larry
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DaveB »

Hi Larry :hello:

It most certainly IS a mad world and I can confirm that as me and SWMBO have just had a blazing row over this very subject. If I'm not here tomorrow, you'll know there was more than coffee in my cup! :worried:

It's the 'public' thing that gets me and I just can't get my head around it. If, for example, you walked into the bar or dining area of the pub.. stark bo**ock naked, you could 'justifiably' be hit by the law for indecent exposure among other things and probably a great deal more when the CPS have had a go. The bar and dining area are of course, public areas. Now.. if you're a 'guest' who has paid his dosh for a room.. you can walk around in that room all day and all night.. stark bo**ockly buff and not cause any disturbance. You won't be infringing the law, I won't charge you extra for your effort.. you'll just be a prat.. doing what he wants to do in the sanctity of his paid for, private room. While you ARE the 'general public'.. you're no relation e t c.. you are in a private place, not accessible to the general public. You can fornicate.. do whatever the hell you like as long as you don't break anything because you are NOT in a public place but a PRIVATE place. This is an extreme example.. not as extreme as I could have presented but you can see where I'm coming from. By the power of Greyskull and all things holy.. surely, a guest room is NOT a public place.. not in the 'real world' sense of the word so why TF do the PRS consider it so.. NOW??
They've been to some EU court or other and got a 'favourable' result (which for most of us is BLX anyway) but the detail of the finding was more to do with 're-transmission' rather than music being played on TV. :dunno:

Thank goodness I'm leaving this place and this trade for good very soon. It will be nice to be a 'normal' working person again (assuming I can find work) and avoid *ankers like this.. by and large ;)

ATB
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Airspeed
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by Airspeed »

Just a few words, Dave:
The law is an ass.
Courts enforce law, not justice.
60 years ago, the Australian Tax Act was smaller and simpler than current telephone bills. Now it's more like The Lord of the Rings.
No matter where or how you change, remember The Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy: "Resistance is futile."
If you try to hide down a hole, some department will hit you for interferring with free flow of water, and for using up airspace with the dirt you removed.
I'm so glad there's no life after death, it would be too cruel. :OB:
DaveB
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DaveB »

Aint that so Mike. I'd already believed I'd been something really terrible in a previous life.. I really don't want to go through it all again 8)

I'm sure the PRS will be victorious at the end of the day.. that's how the system works. Still.. it'll be a bitter pill to swallow :| Ultimately, I'll be glad to get out of this business and work for someone else doing something completely different. Head down.. do the job.. go home.. no jobsworths chasing me ;)

ATB
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Garry Russell
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by Garry Russell »

Without wanting to go into details

I spent 18 months without any form of benefit because the authorities recognised I was ill but the law did not list my illness.

So under the law they could deny me benefit, and they did

As Mike says...law and justice are not the same things and it would seem law and reality exist in different dimensions.
Garry

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DaveB
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DaveB »

Indeed mate. There was a line said on some prog or other on TV the other day which I found slightly ironic. The chap was saying that the courts and judicial process are there to uphold and protect the law.. they're not there to prove someone innocent or guilty, right or wrong.

ATB
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DelP
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Re: Come the revolution...

Post by DelP »

Hi mate :hello:

Quote from local tourism site:

While there has been agreement that a PRS licence is required for public places, the British Hospitality Association has long argued that accommodation providers supplying devices such as TVs, radios and CD players in guests rooms should fall outside the definition of public space.

However, on 7th December 2006 the European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled that the distribution of a signal by the means of television sets by a hotel to customers staying in its rooms, whatever technique is used to transmit the signal, constituted communication to the public within the meaning of Article 3(1) of the European Directive on the 'harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society'.

The Court felt that the private nature of hotel rooms did not preclude the communication of a work by means of television sets from constituting 'communication to the public' within the meaning of Article 3(1) of Directive.

Interestingly, the ECJ ruled that the provision of physical facilities for playing copyright material in guests’ rooms did not amount to communication. Rather it was the distribution of the signal that amounted to the breach of copyright. Therefore, if the accommodation provider does not distribute the signal (ie the TV receives its signal directly from the transmitter as opposed to from a recording), it may be possible to mount an argument that the Directive has not been breached and that a PRS licence is still not required.

On the basis of this ruling it seems that the PRS are now renewing efforts to make UK accommodation providers obtain a licence for playing copyright material in guests’ rooms.

There has also been significant criticism of the PRS's heavy-handed approach to the collection of licence fees particularly, from small accommodation providers.

As a result of numerous complaints a new code of practice for the PRS has been introduced to clarify the rights and responsibilities of the PRS and businesses that provide music. An ombudsman has also been established to oversee the PRS's performance and to adjudicate on complaints.


The way I read this is that if each guest room TV and bedside radio has it's own seperate antenna receiving from the transmitter then you are not physically distributing the signal. You'd only need the Hotel TV licence then you could tell the PRS to go sit on a sharp stick. I understand the PRS protects artists rights but a guest room isn't public 8)

Derek
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