TNT 737 EGBB Crash landing video

tonymadge · Post by **tonymadge** » 09 Dec 2006, 14:03

EMA has a east west runway so the winds are usually in line with the runway Bham has anorth south runway so x-winds are the norm. Hence the wobbly app just prior to touchdown

Nigel H-J · Post by **Nigel H-J** » 10 Dec 2006, 13:53

Perhaps they should have thrown away the app when the AP first disconnected.

Easy with 20/20 hindsight I know. We are not allowed to reconnect the ap on an auto-ILS if it disconnects for some reason

Tonks, hindsight is often a common discussion point after it happens and I wonder whether (rightly or wrongly) it was an impulsive reaction from the pilot to get her down at all costs!!

It was stated that the aircraft held at Stanstead for around thirty minutes before diverting to East Midlands which would be around another thirty minute flight. Don't know whether or not the weather at East Midlands was border-line for landing for that type of aircraft but if that was the case, then there might have been that bit more pressure to continue the approach to "Get her in".
Only pleased to hear that no-one was injured.

Post by **DaveB** » 10 Dec 2006, 14:40

I honestly don't think (other than the poor wx) that EMA would be a problem for a 737 Nigel as TNT have a hub there. Presumably, you mean by 'Getting it down' that the crew were worried about fuel status. I don't think any pilot is keen to divert unless necessary (expecially where pax are concerned though this wasn't a consideration on the TNT aircraft) but the closer airport would have been Birmingham (just). Perhaps the crew were not aware that Birmingham was 'clear' and opted for EMA as it is to all intents, home turf.
To divert from EMA to Brum after the incident would mean a comparatively simple slow LH turn to bring them onto the northern ILS and would be only a few minutes flying time.

Under the circumstances, the SOP used by Tonks in the VC10's does seem to be the wisest thing to do as it immediately cut's your choices down. If the AP disengages on an Auto-ILS approach, do not re-engage and throw the landing. We have no idea what TNT's SOP is for this eventuality so either the pilots did or did not adhere to it. In which case, you have a pilot error or an SOP that needs redefining :think:

Hindsight is great but how boring would it be if we all had it

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Nigel H-J · Post by **Nigel H-J** » 10 Dec 2006, 15:19

Thanks Dave but I was thinking more on the lines of impatience or..........'Sod it.......get her down without any more hitches'!!

cstorey · Post by **cstorey** » 10 Dec 2006, 18:26

It is pointless to speculate, but the behaviour of the aeroplane suggest a microburst /windshear ( or possibly wake) encounter, however unlikely that may seem on a misty ( and presumably stable) morning. A down draught encounter would produce a nose up pitch command exceeding AP drop out limits, and a reconnect would then produce a nose down pitch to recapture the glideslope. The 737 is susceptible to Pilot Induced Oscillation and once this divergent condition had occurred at less than 300 feet agl the situation was probably irrecoverable, hence the very heavy landing

hinch · Post by **hinch** » 10 Dec 2006, 19:32

TobyV wrote:Looked a bit wobbly to me :think: A similar thing happened to a 737 in 1989 (?) in the US (cant remember the airline, precise date or location now ), but for some reason (I think it was something daft like some foreign object stuck in the gear bay preventing one leg from lowering) and the pilots brought that in safely in a manner that from what I can remember of the footage, looked less haphazard :think: Anyway, shouldnt detract too much from the fact these guys did bring it in safely... and nice flying by the heli to keep up with the 737 so well

i saw that on the discovery channel, he had previously been bouncing it down the runway on one wheel to see if he could dislodge the other! finally however a heavy landing was needed to give a successful slide and not a spin off the side of the runway - bursting the tire to give even friction.

however bad you think the video was of this landing at birmingham, i thought it was good. any landing with no gear where you slide nicely down the centreline is a good one and the pilot was obviously in control to have done so...

jonesey2k · Post by **jonesey2k** » 10 Dec 2006, 20:17

They had previously pulled some G's in mid air, one main leg came down, the other was stuck fast.

I bet the pax enjoyed themselves

tonymadge · Post by **tonymadge** » 11 Dec 2006, 08:45

I think the video will be removed today..hopefully for a short while. I can't go into details on the forum on this but I am hoping it will be in the short term.....will keep you updated :sad:

Post by **DaveB** » 11 Dec 2006, 12:00

Hiya Mr T

Ah.. so it's a mechanical thing I take it so you couldn't even if you wanted to. I presumed from your earlier comment that the SOP meant you were not to re-engage

Can we give credit to Vickers for another massively over-engineered safety feature!!

Some very interesting comments and info have come out of this thread. Tks to all who participated

Tks too for the info on the vid Tony

ATB

DaveB :tab: