Inaccurate flight dynamics

[Kevin Farnell]

I know the real thing can get off the ground fully laiden on a 6000 foot runway

Are you sure about this?
I recall many MD-80 departures from Birmingham (EGBB), being weight limited from 8400 ft and requiring a fuel stop en route to places like Tenerife.
I have flown on the MD-80 from Phoenix to Houston and the take off runway required far exceeded that of much larger aircraft.

Regards

Kevin

[petermcleland]

Or just point him in the direction of some good dynamics!

In my opinion, the most realistic flight dynamics in the FSX default aircraft, belong to the Trike. It has very good spiral instability that I've not seen modelled before in FS. I normally never fly FS default aircraft as I find them somewhat lacking in what I require. However, the Trike is an exception and I wish I could bring it into FS9 where I live...Sadly, I'm not able to make this work, but live in hopes of someone being able to do it :roll:

[DispatchDragon]

Just came across this thread - and Im in total agreement with Chris and Kevin - you missed out far to many variables to be able to ascertain the
problem and the statment "It goes like a fighter" I have 300 pilots who would disagree with you there - depending on the model and variant it can be everything from a total dog (MD81/82 with -15s) to a reasonable carrier of 150 people (MD83/MD88 with 219s) However it cannot be considered to have "fighter performance" prehaps an empty MD90 or 717 shows some of those ttraits - And as far as operating out of 6000 foot longs strips - well yes east of the Mississippi and on a standard (59F) day. ALL of the MD80s we operate on the West Coast are MD83s with 219 power and in summer 90% of our departures are made using optimum flap, Max power and Packs off. So Im not sure where your getting data - its a good solid aircraft that when asked will give you a 1500 nm leg with a load - but NOT quickly and not out of short fields - Ace to give you a quick example - an MD83 with 150 passengers is stretched to the maximum to make Lansing Mi (KLAN to KLAS) Las Vegas
with a 30 knot headwind component - and Lansing has a 8000 foot runway



Hope this helps

Leif
BTW the above is NOT FS sim pretend - its what I do day in day out
for a living

[Chris Trott]

Also, he didn't say whose model he is using. If it's the SGA model, then he's flat wrong about the Flight Dynamics accuracy. It was tested, tested, and then tested a third time by real MD-80 crew members and verified with over 100 hours of in-sim testing using real weather and controlled ISA conditions against the book and we made sure it was within 5% of actual in all conditions versus the book. We can't simulate the things that make each individual aircraft deviate a bit from norm, but I think 5% of book is a pretty good place since it does allow for that bit of "uniqueness" that exists in each aircraft.

[Chris Trott]

BTW - Lief, do you know if the guys put in a V1 adjustment at Lansing for the runway? I know that there were several airports that our crews pulled the V1 down by up to 10 knots from the charted V1 (in the aircraft manual) to account for the short runway when heavy to allow them to still safely depart at close to the MTOW given in the ATOGS but still not have to worry about cutting it close if they had to abort.

[VC10ace]

Thanks guys some intersting replies there that all help.

I must admit Daves aircraft are all spot on with the dynams as far as I can see, having flown thousands of hours on the VC10, a brief stint HANDS ON in the captains seat and on the conversion squadron sim, the model flies like a good un! Phenominal dynams, even down to having to 'feel' the VC10 onto the ground to land her SUPERB! Very accurate especially as I like to mess around with areodynamic braking and hold the nose up as long as possible to save brakes - didnt think it would do it - OH YES IT DOES!

Most of my airports I design are at or near sea level, give or take a hundred feet so not much density problems here! I have a couple of 'test fields' for aircraft testing that I built. One is on a levelled mountain top in Washington state, maybe 9000 odd feet AGL, the other is built next to the shuttle runway at Edwards AFB, 20,000 feet tail drag test runway! Oh and I do have a high altitude test field SOMEWHERE but I have forgotten WHERE I put it! I know its around 12000 AGL and great for taking off and simulating total engine failure! If you wing it you can land almost ANY aircraft from a nice glide down to a sea level airport!

The WORST model I have ever come across (having flown a REAL 747 sim) is the default 747! It is pants. Whoever did the dynams for it wants sacking. Even with only 20% fuel and crew payload and correct trim it WONT take off from Kai Tak? So if anyone goes scuba diving in HK harbour youll find a few dozen wrecks of old jumbos littering the sea floor that I put there!

PS Microsoft - want a dynamicist? I'll make do on 100,000 GBP per annum if youre offering! Oh AND an office overlooking O'Hare! Come on REALLY if you are designing a NEW FS - let get it realistic this time? Time to bin the Jumbo anyway in favor of a nice airbus 380?

[cstorey]

A field 12000' AGL would produce a very interesting landing indeed. I presume in each case you mean Altitude? If so, here is the answer to why you are experiencing your take off problems

[VC10ace]

no that was just an example. Taking off from a sea level airport most of the flight sim default aircraft are crap dynams! The 777 for instance should be VR fully loaded in about 10,000 feet with a 20 degree climbout, but I have a job clawing the thing into the air correctly trimmed at the end of heathrows 12,000 footer!

Like I say Microsoft need to address these terrible flight characteristics

[RAF_Quantum]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Something very odd going on here as you should have no problems with being able to get the 777 out of EGLL. I just tried it myself as it's been a while since I last flew the 777. Loading up to MTOW (660,000lbs) I cleared all weather so no wind component down runway 27L and set OAT to 100 deg. Set 2 notches flat (5 deg) and trim position slightly nose up from middle of green segment. I didn't have to help much as the aircraft started to rotate itself at @140kts and was climbing through 2000ft by the end of runway.

It might be stating the obvious but are you actually achieving full power. If you use a joystick throttle maybe it needs calibrating so that it will actually give you full throttle movement.

Good luck.

Rgds

John