But is it Art?

[John]

You know what I think it is art... a harrier unsupported in a beautiful space, that works for me

I really, really like it

Kind regards

John

Ps I've just noticed that the harrier has sort of feathers painted very subtly on it... that makes it even better IMHO
PPS and the lines of the 'Jag' seen so closey with such a highly polished finish? Give me that over a 'Constable' anyday!

[markw]

Actually, I agree, I was expecting the artist to be using the aircraft to make some sort of message about war and military issues, but instead she's actually celebrating the power and form of the aircraft. Sounds like she had the same experience a lot of aircraft enthusiasts have when they see a low flying aircraft in the Welsh landscape and it has affected her to the point she created these works.

Given the way many Snowdonia Society members are interfering locally to me in the re-opening of Llanbedr airfield on the grounds they want the area pickled in aspic, silent and preferably with a subservient poverty stricken bunch of locals to serve them in the shops, rather than re-opening something that was employing local people for fifty plus years in high paid jobs with far noisier kit than is likely to use a reopened facility, her description of her reaction to seeing that low-flying jet in Wales is refreshing.

Art is more than pretty chocolate box paintings and accessible representational sculpture, I think this works and when contextualised with her description, actually a very positive statement that might actually challenge some to think again about military aircraft in particular.

[Paul K]

I'm on the Tate mailing list, and got this link which provides a bit more info;

http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibiti ... fault.shtm

I like it a lot, and will definitely be going to see it. Even if I don't grasp any esoteric artistic concepts, it will be an opportunity to examine a Jaguar's underside without having to do the limbo.

[Jon.M]

From the report I read in the Times I understand that the artist intended to highlight the dichotomy between the beauty and fascination of fighter aircraft, which she shares, and their purpose, which is to kill.

I think this is a valid point given that the reason is to provoke thought even if you don't agree with her. If that is what art is about rather than just producing pretty objects or pictures then I'm in favour.

I believe the Harrier is etched, rather than painted, with the plumage of it's feathered namesake.

Jon

[DaveB]

Art eh? One man's meat and all that.

As far as this sort of thing goes, I think Gary summed it up perfectly. While it's not my cup of tea, I don't think anything in the 'Modern' will ever be. That said, I look at the back wheel of my 955i and consider IT to be a work of art. Perhaps I'll enter it at the next competition

ATB

DaveB

[basys]

Hi Folks

Following original negatives,
was going to respond, but had other things to do.
Glad it's since being more positively acknowledged.



Paul -
Cheers for the link.
For anyone that hasn't seen it, recommend watching the video.
She's definitely coming from the right place, and seems to be a bit of a plane junkie.

Laughed at the unintended "Does my bum look big in this ?" moment, (3:20).




Also liked her Xmas tree.

Challenge anyone to name all here in this snippet from a 60 minute previous work.
No pausing !



Nick -
What were you showing us at that URL you'd posted http://krz.ch/v36T
OpenDNS is blocking for me as a pishing site.



ATB
Paul

[DaveB]

Glad it's since being more positively acknowledged.

It really does beg the question doesn't it.. but is it art?! You have a Harrier suspended by it's tail and a Jaguar upside down. That is what they are. The 'artist' didn't create either form.. she just painted them both silver, hung one by it's tail and turned the other upside down. Personally, I think calling either piece 'art' is cheap.. a cop out. By the same token, companies like Aston Martin rarely produce a 'stinker' so you could say they produce pieces of art. Hang a DB9 by it's rear end or display one upside down and it will still have beautiful form but is it art??

I suppose the question should be 'What is art?'

ATB

DaveB

[DelP]

I suppose the question should be 'What is art?'

No one has been able to answer that question for a good few thousand years.....it's a personal thing

I went to art college when I hit civvie street and I've had the luxury of seeing some seriously pretentious shite. At the time I wanted to paint everything green and black but that's neither here nor there

I like this...she has a love or fascination for aircraft and she sees something in them that maybe we don't. For her it's not lumps of metal but specific aircraft....seen in a different light.

I'll get my coat

Derek

[DaveB]

she sees something in them that maybe we don't. For her it's not lumps of metal but specific aircraft....seen in a different light.

I think that is already accepted mate. She obviously see's something there that I don't though I do see specific aircraft.. a Harrier and a Jaguar

I've no objection on the subject matter but to call it art is (to me) creeping into that seriously pretentious area you mention. They're both great subjects and it's most unusual to see them displayed in this way (though she may have got the idea after visiting the Cold War Hangar at Cosford!). I guess my low-end secondary education has a greater hold on me than I'd like to admit so I'll depart here while I'm behind

ATB

DaveB

[basys]

Hi Folks

Not disagreeing with anyone,
just my personal POV.

It really does beg the question doesn't it.. but is it art?!
You have a Harrier suspended by it's tail and a Jaguar upside down.

Familiarity can breed contempt/apathy.

By that I mean, for most people -
Taking a rarely seen, unfamiliar, and only distantly observable object,
entirely out of original context,
then presenting it in a forum for close inspection by the public,
encouraging their consideration in isolation, or even in part,
so viewers rethink previous conceptions in an entirely different way.

Then yes, that can be art.



Equally valid for an Aston-Martin.

However, the 'form' of any roadcar,
is insufficiently dissimilar in scale, basic components, footprint, or overall shape,
from any viewer's familiar everyday experience,
that it would unlikely evoke a similar level of stimulus,
except in a true afficionado.

The 'artist' didn't create either form..
she just painted them both silver,
hung one by it's tail and turned the other upside down.

I don't think she's claiming to be the originator of the 'art',
rather shes recognizing and celebrating
the work of the designers, engineers, and craftsmen,
who created the original 'form' of those aircraft,
and the awe and power invoked when seen in action.

Those 'forms' themselves
have an inherent beauty and elegance.
Particularly the lines and complex curves of the Jaguar,
which in many of the usual pics appears an ungainly and angular aircraft.

The underlying mathematics and fluid-hydrodynamics that shaped the surfaces of those forms,
could also be considered art,
especially apparent when you view the reflections in the Jaguar's surface.

I suppose the question should be 'What is art?'

Does the above sound more acceptable ?

Less likely to be said,
if instead she'd used an A10 Warthog, or a SkyVan.



No matter what,
engineering is an unappreciated artform.



PS
From viewing the video,
the hanging of the Harrier was a new insight for me,
as I'd never previously appreciated just how large/long an aircraft she is.

The Jaguar isn't painted,
it's been buffed back to the original raw material.

PPS
Dave, did you watch the video ?



HTH
ATB
Paul