MSN - Unsuccessful planes

[NigelC]

If memory serves me right, wasn't the F-111 (F-111K) ordered for the RAF after the cancellation of TSR2, but subsequently cancelled in favour of F-4K/M Phantoms?

[DaveB]

I think much of the 'Saga' was politically driven tbh mate. Don't forget to throw Lord Mountbatten into the mix trying to push the Bucc

ATB

DaveB

[SkippyBing]

They'd actually started building the first two F-111Ks, there are pictures on the net if you poke around, you can make out the refuelling probe in front of the windscreen.
The main problem with the TSR.2 was that the country was broke and it wasn't going to be cheap. The UK was essentially going to try and spread the development costs of an aircraft equivalent to an F-111 across at most 100 aircraft where the US were going to do the same across 3000!

[NigelC]

I think much of the 'Saga' was politically driven tbh mate. Don't forget to throw Lord Mountbatten into the mix trying to push the Bucc

ATB

DaveB

Indeed! The reason for the F-4s was the offset in putting British engines and avionins in there. Because the Spey was considerably fatter than the J79 (and 12% more powerful) and therefore required a change in fuselage shape, we ended up with the slowest, lowest, heaviest and most costly Phantoms in the world, 200 knots slower than the J79 powered ships at altitude. The only thing it could do better was accelerate in a straight line at low level coz of the extra grunt.

[SkippyBing]

The only thing it could do better was accelerate in a straight line at low level coz of the extra grunt.

And get off our smaller carrier fully loaded something the J-79 powered birds couldn't do. I read an account years ago where a US pilot described getting an F-4J off the Ark as 'hairy'.

[NigelC]

Well the USN did have the advantage of carriers with decks the size of Wales in comparison. Mind you, being thrown off a ship by a blast of steam seems hairy to me anyway