Approach Procedures For Berlin Airports, Please

[Aharon]

Shalom and greetings all my pals,

My humblest apologies if I am a lurker here and I seem not able to find appropriate subforum on CBFSIM forums to post questions on approach methods to an airport. The moderator can transfer my posted thread to correct subforum for this topic or subject.

Do any of you know about approach procedures or have the approach charts for two Berlin airports EDDI Berlin Tempelhof airport and EDDT Berlin Tegel airport during eras 1960s and 1970s using historic jets such as 707s, 727s, BAC 1-11s, Tridents, and Carvelles, please?? I am sure that due to the communist occupation of East Germany, there would be very strict procedures for those 2 airports mentioned above.

This is NOT to be confused with approach procedures and charts for the same airports during Berlin airlift which I already have and know.

Thank you for any assistance or information in this matter. Would like to re-create BAC 1-11 flight from EGHH Heathrow to EDDI Tempelhof.

Regards,

Aharon

[dfarrow]

Aharon , if you have not got any infomation yet ? Here is some ....
1st Heathrow is EGLL !
Departure from EGLL would be on a Clacton SID . Still is today !
Only THF Tempelhof flt I did was 12/6/75 in T2 G-AVFJ. Capt was Clive Elton , V senior and excellent base training Capt , Wx was CAVOK and I did a manual descent and approach , for the Capt's landing through the blocks of flats to a short [ for a Trident ] rwy.
Routing from Clacton CLN [ from a 1982 chart ] to TULIP , Pampus PAM , Rekken RKN , Osnabruck OSN .then from a 1992 chart ... Leine DLE , Hehlingen HLZ... High level [ above Fl 300 ] .... From HLZ it would have been ''Centre Route 2 , FL 085 Havel HVL '' .... then Tempelhof VOR TOF , or radar to an ILS , or [ mostly ] a visual approach aiming at the ''goalposts'' of the Intercontinental Hotel [ black looking hotel with a white outside rim ] .... if possible inside the ''Onion'' ....tall tower with a sphere [ restaurant ] just inside E Berlin .
Thus descent to HLZ at FL 085 had to be worked out . High speed was kept up in the corridor , and the challenge of when to close the throttles for the visual without using speedbrake or haveing to put power on early .
Below is link to best chart of the corridors I could find , you'll have to scroll way down to find the Jeppesen chart .. US spelling CENTER RTE 2 .

https://history.stackexchange.com/quest ... negotiated

Another link showing Corridor chart from 1970 , looks like an AERAD one same as we used .

https://ops.group/blog/berlins-air-corr ... ill-alive/

I came back IGS [ Internal German Services ] in 1986 on 737-200s into Tegel TXL . Switching to ATPs in '89 . Routes were the same until shortly after the wall came down , [ 35 yrs ago last Friday ] . Then direct routes all over E Germany opened up . Highland Division's ATPs left in '91 . Did not go back to Berlin until 98 , when all routes inbound were to the North of the city , very long winded , and no visual apps .

Hope this may [ belatedly ] help .

rgds dfarrow

[dfarrow]

PS , before start clearance was issued , the 4 powers around a table in the BASC [ Berlin air safety centre ] had to a sign a 'safety of flt is guaranteed' chit, Russians often delayed it .. The corridors were 10,000 ft high [ no jets when they were negotiated ] , 20 Statute [ not Nautical ] miles wide , every bit of navigation we did was ' Nautical ' , thus care was needed not to bust the sides . Deviation for weather [ CBs , TZs ] was not automatically given .
'' Berlin Centre '' [ Air traffic control ] watched everyone closely on radar . Not unusual to be warned of crossing Migs , one 500' above you and one 500' below . [ Never had a camera , doh ! ].
Centre Route 1 was the northern of the 2 centre routes and was used for westbound departures .

Pilots had to be UK , US , FR or Rus ... we had an Aussie , Dane , and Dutch , they were all questioned as to nationality when doing the radio ... and thus banned from Berlin flying !

rgds dfarrow.

[Aharon]

HOLY SMOKES HOLY SMOKES HOLY SMOKES

THAT IS PRETTY UTTERLY PURE AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING.

Thanks a zillion for your great explanations and AWESOME links.

I did NOT know you were real world pilot flying into the two Berlin airports in era 1970s!! Must be HAIR RAISING flights for you!!!

Regards and WITH GREAT GREAT THANKS,

Aharon

[dfarrow]

Aharon , glad you got the message and they are helpful . Still remember flying between the flats on approach to THF , and still have hair , 'tho it's white !
Don't know if you were on the forum when Peter McClelland was active , I flew as his co pilot several times .

Please ask if there are any questions .

rgds dave f.

[Aharon]

Don't know if you were on the forum when Peter McClelland was active , I flew as his co pilot several times .

WOW holy smokes you flew with Peter McLeland few times?????? Small world!!!!!

I know Peter McLeland for years back to when there was Canadian Flight Sim forums operated by late Ludo62. We chatted via few aviation forums including this British one.

Have not heard or seen him on any forum for 2 years. Hope your pal Peter is okay. He makes heck of flight sim videos!!!

Regards,

Aharon