Classic British Flight Sim

i have been gmaxing FS9 for over a year now, and can do most of fs9 things very quickly. my Chinook for fs9 has taken 4 weeks from scratch to BETA. BUT, learning FSX SDK has really put me off FSX. I have started trying to convert my Chinook to FSK and hit so many walls and obsticales that just were not there in FS9. No wonder other developers are staying away

Could it be argued that, because of the distinct lack of freeware alternatives, payware FSX addons could indeed become more popular (percentage wise), therefore partially alleviating the loss of the FS9 market? For example, if Kirk Olsson's F-16 had been produced for FSX, at the same percieved standard of quality as it was when it was released, would Aerosoft generate as much revenue as they will from their upcoming F-16? I'm not saying it'll totally remedy the situation, but it still might be a positive factor for payware companies.

:brick:

Michael,

I find FSX a great sim, as do many others. So please repect my opinion. Even Tony Madge, cheif slagger off of all things FSX can see it has some plus points.

XR219 wrote:Michael,

I find FSX a great sim, as do many others. So please repect my opinion. Even Tony Madge, cheif slagger off of all things FSX can see it has some plus points.

Well smack me with a kipper skipper, that told me good an proper !.

Where did I say I was disrespecting your views or slagging you off ?. I've tried to remain dispassionate and objective, clearly not a popular move.

I do respect your opinion, far greater than you might realise or give me credit for, you may not wish to see it that way but thats your loss, however a great many do not respect those that cant/wont/dont want to be involved with FSx. Quite frankly I'd rather just go back to my hole and bend polys.

I'm going to leave this here before I say something really stupid ( edited all previous to remove offensive dialog ) or get marched off to the tower by the management.

Sorry Michael, that came out wrong... its been a shitty day and I didn't mean to take it out on you. I'm just sick of FSX bashing. People are free to choose.

I was refering to your comment...

Ben you have to be carefull with words like great sim, it isnt, we all know it, its acceptable but nothing more

And the we all know bit, when clearly we don't. Several people who post on here regularly have spent a year giving the "its sh1t3" card to FSX, when they weren't even using it. The thing is many of our viewers will take that as read without trying for themselves. 12 months later and as people are tempted by it and are actually finding that they enjoy it, and a fair few even prefering it to FS9. Every week, there is another post on Escorts and Stewards about another one of our group who have tried it and like it.

Developers didn't want to develope for a sim that last year know one was using. Now, the payware guys have cottoned on to the fact that many people are now using it, and because there are so few freeware guys who could be arsed to learn the new SDK, the payware houses have an opertunity to clean up.

As I've said many times before Michael, people can chose which ever sim they want, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks FSX is a great sim, just as FS9 is too, but I've made my choice. I don't mock FS9, or the people who use it, so I don't expect people to mock my choice either.

It's a very personal thing isn't it in many cases. Why do some drink lager and others bitter when they're both beer. Why do some drive Fiat and others Ford when they're both cars. I honestly don't think FSX was being slagged off for the sake of it as it's quite clear that MD has FSX as do many if not most of us here in one shape or other be it the much maligned 'Demo' or the latest version with SP2 and/or Acceleration.

For sure.. some have slagged it off and haven't tried it but again.. that's the same with lager/bitter drinkers and Fiat/Ford drivers :drinkers: (note to Ben.. we need a 'drinker's icon that shows bitter NOT Nigerian Lager)

I think we have a reasonable cross section of responses in regard to the original post 'FSX add-ons...the lack of?' and they encompass all of the reasons given.. developers not being arsed (cruel I'm sure).. SDK goal posts moving to folk slagging it off who've not tried it (though these are relatively easy to spot and should be ignored/are ignored).. folk not having the horsepower to unleash those galloping giraffe to those who given all the above, have the horsepower.. understand the SDK but simply still find a pint of bitter hits the spot so the lager gets left to go-off (in this case.. FSX Lager) ;-)

To be honest.. it's as much a wind up to keep hearing how 'great' FSX is when the vast majority of us (as I see it) don't like it as it is to keep hearing how rubbish it is. Those that love it are worthy champions but can probably be counted using only ones digits but the fact is.. there still doesn't seem to be the will for developers to keep them happy and until this happens, it will remain the 'great'.. unwanted/unused sim ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Ben,

Ok lets take the "we all" bit and open that a little more, sit at the table objectively, no passion, no emotion, nothing, just hard facts, numbers, math what ever, good bits and bad bits, can you then honestly say that its a great sim in a global user sense ?, not a personal sense, not whether you think its good or not but whether its good for the majority of users, I find it hard to believe that any one could honestly say that. You know it has flaws, every one who tries it knows it has flaws, the crux of the whole issue is how much you are prepared to forgive, how much you are prepared to over look.

In that context, the "we all" know it has issues is a fact we cannot run from, and thus by deduction "we all" know it isn't great, it is also a fact that "we all" accommodate it differently. It is a great sim for some, but it is more accurate to say its a good sim for all. The reason I think you have issues with the term "we all" is that your speaking personally and I was speaking generically.

I understand your pain on the other issues but I believe that until people pull there heads from the sand and stand up and acknowledge the downsides then this issue is never going to go away. I also understand how post after post saying it isn't great can be irritating, but..... and I knowingly step over the line here playing devils advocate in the essence of reasoned and balanced dialogue.....there 'may' be those who don't think its great and who find all the gushing FSx great threads just as irritating.

This isn't personal, its not aimed at you, the likes of you and I are infinitesimally insignificant in this massively complicated situation.

I still believe that until people ( if they can actually be bothered ) start to begin to look at some fundamentals about where it has gone wrong then its going to go down the pan rather steadily. Its all good and well for those that do like it to simply walk off with scant regard for those that don't, a more clinical attitude would be to try and open a dialogue and find out why they are truly unhappy with it, I've seen lots of negative posts but I've also seen a lot of its fine here whats your problem pal posts too, neither side is much better than the other.....in a global sense....nothing personal again here either.

I'm not mocking you or anyone else's choices, I'm just trying to get people to stop ( why I've yet to work out myself ) for a few brief seconds and try to look at the whole situation from outside the box, maybe consider what they can do to help resolve the issue, because quite clearly what ever thoughts happened in the past hasn't made much progress to resolving the differences between the FS9 and FSx fans or elevating FSx as the natural substitute for FS9.

Maybe I just got it all wrong, maybe I should just give in, think of today and ignore where it might lead tomorrow.

FSx will be the natural sim of choice in the future "we all" know that to be true, but at what cost to the community ?, the gut kicker for me is that I'm guessing those already in FSx probably don't care about those still left in FS9 and thats an awful parallel window on much of todays society.

Actually having written all that, read, re read, edited and re read I've come to a horribly enlightening conclusion myself, I really couldn't care less any more :-( .

Dave,

Good anology, the beer one, in real life that alone sparks passion and fisti cuffs too !, so what chance has two games got at getting a level headed debate LOL, personally I prefer Cider....no ice ( girls drink with ice in).

Yes, for the record I do have FSx, full blown SP2 ACC and all the other whizz bangs, except Vista and DX10, I do have the horse power to run it at what I consider acceptable levels for me personally. I use it and sometimes 'play' it quite regularily, but you know what, the FS9 pair of well worn slippers still feel more comfortable and I'm just about to consider reloading my Golden Wings and Silver Wings set ups to get into the mood for some new projects.

There was a similar debate at SoH and the outcome was that FSx wasnt so much as a progression of FS9 but more like a parallel developement, a parting of the FS path rather than an extension of the exisiting one, one presumes that FSxi will bring parts of the paths back together ?.

Best

Michael

Thats a very fair point you make Michael, and one that I hadn't considered. What about those who are still using FS9.

From a user experience point of view, I can only speak as I find at a personal level. I will leave others to mull over the myriad of information and make there own mind up, but all that I do advise people is to explain what they don't like about it.

On a personal level, my massive gripe with it is that the old FS9 models I know and love aren't as good as they are in FS9 when ported to FSX, and this is something I struggle with, but in all honesty, i think the "sim" in that the platform it gives to build on is better. But thats is very much my personal opinion and one that will change based on a users PC spec and type of flying.

looking forward....
I very much hope that the next incarnation of the sim takes the current SDK and enhances it, without forcing developers to start from scratch. That way, those that have the current know how can get running more quickly, and help those that haven't taken the plunge as yet.

I think that for many freeware developers, its a labour of love, (certainly is for all of the guys on here.) In some ways I look at it a bit like things I used to do in work.

NT4 Server = FS9; Windows 2000 Server= FSX; Windows 2003 Server= FS11

Back in the days of Windows NT 4.0, I knew the OS inside out. I worked hard and built up my knowledge and experience and became good at something I had no offical training in. That knowledge / experience got me new jobs / better salaries etc and al was good with the world. Then Windows 2000 came out. I was very nervous as this was a very different beast to Windows NT 4. I worried that my lack of proper training / qualifications would start to show with the new pretender, but fortunately for me, my employers stuck with NT 4 for almost everything, so I was still in my comfort zone, although worried that if I needed to change jobs I was much less saleable than before. So having skillfully avoided Windows 2000 for the best part of 3 + years, the all new sing / dancing 2003 server came out and I really was on the back foot. My employer was embrasing the new technology completely and I felt very exposed. Now I was lucky. I had 2 consultants from a leading firm working with me, and from whom I was able to learn a huge amount and was able to make huge inroads into 2003 to the extent that I'm very fimiliar and comfortable with it, and I feel confident talking about and using it, and thats a nice feeling, I have a new comfort zone. One thing that this greatly sumarised tail taught me, was that, were possible (given financial / time constraints) I would embrace the new stuff as it comes along, and if i didn't like it, I'd work out why I didn't like it and try to change it. This is why when FSX was released I spent a small fortune on new hardware and the new sim. Not because I wanted to be Johnny big balls, but because I didn't want to get left behind.

Its easy to understand why someone doesn't want to get left behind when its their job and what pays the bills, but when its what you do when you come home from work for hours of a night, taking a step back and starting from scratch is a big ask, especially when one of the main tools (FSDS) has had a fairly difficult birth into FSX.

So what ever your choice, heres to the future, and that we can all find our neich in it and we can all find the support to keep learning and evolving