Classic British Flight Sim

Ben,

Ok follow all that and yes I do feel slightly uncomfortable not being the latest and greatest in FSx, I've always been near the front of the field previously and I understand where your coming from if its your bread and butter, however for me it isn't, its a small sideline.

Like you I have accomplished something similar, whilst not up to speed on the FSx SDK I have several outlets who are, there is always a strong demand for model meshes, especially good clean ones that are sim friendly and the demand is even higher these days as there are fewer and fewer developers around and it will get worse as they are just not coming through the ranks.

To that end I have made a conscious and perhaps uncomfortable decision ( for the time being ) to expend my skills on areas that I know I am good at and let those that know what they are good at solve the rest of the problems, it is uncomfortable because you become dependant on others to finalise your product, you are not in total control any more, but lets be frank, unless you go solo thats never going to be an issue and I flatly refuse to burn any bridges so have a myriad of options and outlets open to me ( I think ? LOL ).

On the plus side it does allow me to concentrate and hone my skills in an environment I'm more comfortable with ( Max ), and to be fair, modern models are so complex its almost beyond the time scale of individuals these days to complete a whole package, hence the virtual demise of the freeware author.

If I feel the need to satisfy my self gratification "I made that" demon then I can still export to FS9.

Negating all that and payware connotations, I could quite easily just remain in FS9 for the next two or three years, I really am that comfortable with it and to be honest you could probably eek out a slim payware return if need be as well, its all down to what you expect or desire, if you want to live off it then you have to be FSx SP2/ACC/ Vista and DX10, but if you just want to potter along and get a sensible return for an honest days work then you could probably do far worse than walk by FS9.

Currently the interest is split 50/50, I watch the SoH forums as they have dedicated pages for each sim, round about Xmas time it was still 70/30 in favour of FS9, I'm not talking about addons or development or technical issues, I'm talking about general interest and chit chat, thats usually a good barometer of overall interest. Count the number of people viewing or the weekly number of posts in each page, or the number of new posts when you log on is a good measure of popularity.

After Xmas it started to change, SP2 and ACC were stabilised and established and many larger payware publicly went to FSx only, about March time it got to 50/50, in fact its uncannily almost 50%, each page almost mirrors the other in number of posts and visits for any given time period, so the tide did change, my guess is that Xmas unloaded a whole new raft of users into the equation, all looking for places to go and places to chat and hence generate interest.

Now, heres the slightly worrying part, since then it has remained 50/50, the change hasn't carried on and on some days FS9 still gathers more interest than FSx, not much, maybe 5% or a little more, but its never the other way around, why is that ?.

Granted SoH is but one small portal but even if you apply that globally and offset by a margin of error of say 10%, that still only makes it 60/40 in FSx favour, that really isn't a good enough margin to say FSx is a clear winner or bet your house on. What I think has happened is that much of the initial interest was from people from FS9 who tried and then fell back to FS9, there slack has been taken up by new FSx blood, thats good as new blood is important to the longevity of anything, the bad part is that the old guard isn't moving on as easily as it could and its that blood line that is so important to educate and nurture the new blood.

FSx doesn't seem to have enough 'ohh I must have that !' pulling power to drag people from FS9, there is just enough goodness left in FS9 to stop them flocking lemming style into FSx, I also think theres now a weariness at the constant evolution everyone has gone through over the years with each new sim, whilst FS9 is still an old game it still has just enough magic to satisfy enough of the interest base to dampen FSx onward charge as the next best sim.

So to surmise, I think FS9 is more like the old mans sim, the sim for those a little long in the tooth, those where all the candy isn't the most pressing thing to have and FSx is the young bucks sim, those pressing forward, those who mostly know nothing about FS9 and previous, those coming into FSx now will look at FS9 and laugh there socks off. Theres an old saying ( probably Chinese ) that goes something like this, it is easier though sometimes difficult to move on wards, but it is impossible to regress back to some where you never came from, in other words, if you enter the fray at FS10 then its impossible to see anything good in FS9, but if you entered in at FS9 then it is possible and perhaps difficult to move up to FS10.

Here endeth the lesson, all Jedi, even the great Joda require sleep LOL

Best

Michael

I think Michael makes a very good point when he mentions the complexity of models these days, and I wonder if that isn't contributing to the problem as least as much as FSX is. My first sim was FS2000. Back then I didn't even know that there was such a thing as an addon. I purchased FS9 a few months after its release, and it was only then, perhaps late 2004 or early 2005 that I discovered addons. When I started to download addons, I spent hours at the computer scrolling through page after page of FS9 addons, and this was in 2005. I still occasionally find a model that I somehow missed. But if you compare what was available then to what is available now, the difference is huge. Our tastes and what we expect from a new aircraft have become elevated and much more refined since then. I fly mostly propliners, and the release of aircraft like the FSDzigns Constellation, the Starliner, and the turbo Connie, Tom Gibson's aircraft, which have had a long evolution and refinement, and others, are so good,they have made us turn up our noses at less sopisticated models. I recently downloaded a new aircraft that was completely new, and after about 2 minutes of flying, deleted it. 3 years ago I probably would have kept it and enjoyed it.
The major down side to all this is that people like myself, who would like to get into producing aircraft, are looking at a huge learning curve. For those who got started in the early days of flight simming, there has been a gradual learning process, but for me, it's going to be difficult to produce an aircraft that even I would be happy with, let alone one that I would upload anywhere. There are a few aircraft that I would like to tackle (C-74 and a Wright powered DC-3, to name a couple), but I haven't even started to learn how to do it. Unless someone like Rick Piper, Manfred Jahn, or Milton Shupe were holding my hand, leading me through the process, I don't think I would even attempt the process. I'm sure there a lot of people like me who feel somewhat parasitic, asking others to do the models that we would like done, asking for help, and requesting improvements in the aircraft that are out there, hanging out at forums, bugging others for assistance for problems we're having.
If you'll notice, there are fewer original models even in FS9 that are coming out. If you go to Avsim or Flightsim, every day, there are page after page of repaints, mods, scenery, AI flight plans, and such, but few completely new aircraft. Modelers like Mike Stone have thrown in the towel, and JR Lucariny isn't producing very many new aircraft, whereas 3 or 4 years ago they were very prolific contributors.
I suspect that, given our elevated expectations of new models, payware is going to be more and more the future of flight simming, which is too bad. In a world where money is the driving force behind almost everything, freeware is truly remarkable. People working long hours to produce aircraft for no monetary gain, helping those who use their work with their problems, putting up with complaints about this, that, and the other thing. Hats off to all you guys!

I am no longer in a financial position to really upgrade to a sim that will not allow to fly all the types of aircraft I have on FS9. I have a huge (and I mean huge) collection that will keep me happy for years.

If, in the unlikely event of a Blackburn Beverley being made to the standard of the Hawk by Rick I may have to think again! But I am guessing that (as I said at the beginning) sort of project died with FS2004 (or 2002 in the case of the Bev!) and I will live with it.

Yes, FSX add-ons are superb, (I have seen the screenshots ) but apart from the payware photoreal scenery I do not like the look of the default FSX world enough to pay out the sort of money required, just to have a 'handful' of interesting FSX dedicated airframes.

Avsim is now filled with AI airliners and re-paints of tubeliners from obscure budget airlines that do not interest me, I used to download about 3 files a day, this month, I have got just one and that is a fictional set of 'colourful experimental' RAF schemes for the AS Javelin, another type unlikely ever to be a dedicated FSX model.

So for me, the hobby ends in FS9 and I am not really terribly upset by that fact :goodman: |-) |-) |-)

A fitting point to end this thread.. much like the recession we are in at the moment.. that is not official in the literal sense due to fiscal days meaning the next count is not until October.. but which we all know has already happened :-(

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Dave,

Good decision. My head is in a whirl. Looks like I am not the only late night drinker! Grammar? Spelling? Syntax? Difficult to understand some of it. Such passion! And I am still none the wiser.

What's it all about? It's a game/hobby for goodness sake! I use both FS9 and FSX as I think fit. I certainly don't have any soul searching and navel gazing before clicking on the icon.

Ralph

I'm guessing that the whole FS9 v FSX thing, is age related. Those of us who remember the days of the prop airliners, the "classic" civil and military jets, the wonderful wartime aircraft that we flew in FS9, and wont work in FSX, we are the ones who bemoan the loss. We are still living our childhood. Nothing wrong in that of course. We can also be "grumpy old men". It's a privilege that comes with age.

We all love a good old moan, but things change. I use FSX now, but still miss many of the things I left behind in FS9. That's life fellas! Make the most of it.

Dennis.

So know we have all agreed FSX is staying for the next few years who's doing a lancaster?

Mine's a Vanguard and VC10 please

Lets compromise Ben and knock up a Vanjet

Garry