Classic British Flight Sim

Rick Piper wrote:Hi Kokoro

the Royal Flight 146 has Chaff launchers as far as i know which might be what the strake thing is that you saw

the APU inlet is the upper of the 2 larger round holes.
the lower is the cabin conditioning outlet from memory

Regards
Rick

Hi Rick,

There is also so pretty clever electronic counter measures and two sensors that "follow you" :o One was parked on the ramp at Edinburgh a few years back after the fit out and I watched as the sensor "balls" followed a van passing behind the aircraft. Very James bond.

SkippyBing wrote:Ta Ian,

By the way did anyone ever buy the military cargo version of the 146, and is there and FS model of it?

(see what I did there!)

Hi Sippy,

John Murchison did the 146-STA for FS9 146sta.zip at Avsim



Regards

John

Hi kokoro.
Its been a long time since i worked on the bae 146,i looked in my course notes,ref to the apu inlet just found the info,it is on the left rear fuse the upper circular hole of the two,just fwd of the airbrakes,the APU outlet is on the RH rear fuse,with the heat sheild,but i am sure you already know that one.
there is a naca duct on the apu access door,on the underside of the aircraft,for cooling of some apu components.
For ref on some other ducts,the one on the base of the fin LE ,is the airconditioning packs inlet,which divides into two,and supplies both packs,the LH/RH pack outlets are either side of the rear fuse,just fwd of the airbrake these are the lower ones,the presurisation openings are on the left lower fuse fwd and aft of the main u/c bays below the floor line,i hope this info helps you.
regards alan.

Very nice - I love the 146/RJ series! Flew Birmingham to Dublin a few times on Aer Lingus 146's and loved it, although the flaps used to wobble about a bit on landing like they were going to break off!.

I actually work for the company that produces the windscreens. There are two types of film; Gold, and Indium (quite a rare metallic element that doesn't have many other uses).

The Gold is actually pure 24 carat, and is very fragile until it is laminated (sandwiched in between the inner and outer glass plies), the Indium is a bit more resilient. Both types of film are very thin and are measured in angstroms (ten-billionths of a metre). It is applied by a reactive sputtering process (Don't ask! But the atoms go on to the glass literally one by one!) It is done in a vacuum to maintain purity and to stay free from dust inclusions (which would fizzle and burn as soon as powered-up during the first test).

The Gold panels are the older type, what we call legacy panels, VC-10, BAC1-11, HS748 etc. All of the newer aircraft use the more resilient Indium film. We do the lot - all the Airbusses, B757/767 are the same, EH-101 and B747 are a bugger to get the film on as they are curved! Just working on a new lightweight panel for the 747-8 now.

The films can take very high currents - we can get the ice moving off a cold-chilled B767 (minus 50 degrees C) within twenty seconds, but that is what the pilot needs when going through that icy rain cloud on final approach! In service, and whilst active (not parked-up for the night), the panels are normally left on all the time and regulate at about 40 Celsius in the aircraft.

The Gold films look Gold/Brown in direct reflection, but they can have a slightly purple tint when viewed from an angle. They are very dark (light transmission of about 70 percent) compared to the Indium films. The Indium films can be any colour of the rainbow, but are mainly different shades of purple, red, green, blue, and yellow. They can also be slightly 'silver' in reflection for the really thin films (not many of these).

The 146 is also one of the few that has a very thin (colourless) anti-static drain film on the outer ply (to stop the engineer getting a shock when giving it a wipe!).

The Indium films are thinner and give their colour by the same method that an oily patch does on top of a water puddle - the thin film splits light into all of the colours of the rainbow or spectrum.

The windows are also toughened to a very high degree, and have a pressure seal layer made of vinyl to prevent blow-out if they have a bird strike. A typical specification being able to withstand/deflect the impact of a six pound bird at 250 knots.

Although the Films are made mainly of Gold and Indium, they do have other additives in small amounts that make them conduct electricity and pass light through better, but these have to be kept confidential as they are trade secrets. As they say - I could tell you but I would have to kill you, but that wouldn't be feasible as there are too many reading this forum and it would be too difficult to track you all down!

Edit for Spellin'

Bobcat,

Thanks for that, most interesting. For our part the windscreens are only turned on in icing conditions, probably because we're rarely in them and it'd put too much of a strain on the poor old electrical system in the Lynx!

Yes Skippy, I don't know how high you would go in the Lynx, but you probably wouldn't need the heat all of the time like you say, whereas a typical airliner gets cold soaked to about minus 40 C at 36000 feet I believe. The windows are power hungry as well without a doubt.

The Lynx is another awkward bugger to get the film on as the curve is so severe! Haven't done any for a while but I know we quoted on future Lynx recently. We also did the Westland 30's years back - I wonder who remembers them?

Here is a good example of an Indium film:-

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Westland ... 0898475/M/

And here is an Indium film on the 146 windscreens:-

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Titan-Ai ... 0982880/M/

Looks like what we would call the number three window (rearmost on the flightdeck on the 146) is 'film-free'. Probably no anti-icing requirement on those.

*Note to the model developers - You probably know this but the film is not really visible when looking from inside the aircraft outwards, it is only really visible from the outside when the light reflects on it. They just look slightly tinted from the inside.

Only ever saw one WG.30..........under test at Yeovil, one of the batch that went to India

Garry

Bobcat,
I thought the Lynx might be a bugger as you say, surprised there's a new quote for the Future Lynx, I thought that was one of the bits being robbed from the current fleet! As an aside the windscreen provides about 25% of the structural strength of the forward fuselage in the Lynx.
I think the Lynx Mk.8 tail rotor is taken directly from the Westland 30, the drive trains being essentially identical.

SkippyBing wrote:Bobcat,
surprised there's a new quote for the Future Lynx, I thought that was one of the bits being robbed from the current fleet!

Yes, where they can Skip, but most windows have a limited lifespan anyway before discolouration and delamination starts to set in.
You can see this as a 1cm (approx) yellow border around the inside of the glass. Once the moisture gets in it gets worse and worse, and starts to get more inboard of the frame.

Some of the modelers actually model this quite well with the older aircraft, along with the sensor wires that keep the heat of the panel regulated.

UV light can also cause 'crazing' or mistyness in the vinyl, acrylic, or polyurethane layer when the windscreens are getting old.

The new interest might be for spares stock for the future, as I expect the future Lynx might be expected to go on for a few years longer than planned - like most of our British stuff does! 2030 do you reckon?

Just out of interest, have you ever seen a Lynx windscreen burn-out? It would probably show as a brown mark or stain around one of the busbars. This is normally another sign of moisture getting in over the years. We have had a few broken ones back for inspection over the years - bird or foreign object damaged. No bullets luckily!

Just to stay on topic :roll: , by looking at it, I think the number three window on the 146 was 'plastic' rather than glass. As it faces sideways it wouldn't need to be impact resistant. I know my company didn't do that window as we only do glass stuff really.

Hi Bobcat.
The rear most flightdeck window,which is the DV window/emergency FLT deck exit of the bae 146 is plastic,and does not have any heating of any kind at all.
regards alan.