Sometimes it pays to be behind the times

If you have a payware prog whether it be a model, scenery or utility that you have tried.. tell us about it here.

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msalama
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Post by msalama »

Try a few good FPS' like FEAR or HL2 :lol: Quake 4 is a laugh too.


What a coincidence - I'm downloading the Doom 3 demo at the moment because I thought to give the old bugger a try just for the hell of it after all these years :lol: I was H-E-A-V-I-L-Y into the original, played it for months and months back then... you guys ever tried the new version, and what're your impressions if you have? Looks stunning at any rate if screenshots are any indication...

Also, try out IL-2 if you're bored with M$ but still want to fly. Tons and tons of fun that one!

PushinPolys
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Post by PushinPolys »

jonesey2k wrote:Yeh I noticed that when I tried to install some payware aircraft onto the FSX Demo. Had about 20 warnings popup. Bloody anoying.
You can turn off the digital warnings within the opperating system

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

Also, remember that Roy Chaffin has made a name for himself over the last few years by pulling stupid stunts like copying most of the MAAM-SIM B-25 and panel and then trying to pass it off as his own work after he left MAAM-SIM of his own choosing. I know of a couple of other incidences behind the scenes that didn't get much publicity, so I take his statements with half a shaker of salt.

airboatr

Post by airboatr »

Chris Trott wrote:Also, remember that Roy Chaffin has made a name for himself over the last few years by pulling stupid stunts like copying most of the MAAM-SIM B-25 and panel and then trying to pass it off as his own work after he left MAAM-SIM of his own choosing. I know of a couple of other incidences behind the scenes that didn't get much publicity, so I take his statements with half a shaker of salt.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
thats it????? thats your defense for FSX?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
youv'e got to be kidding
there are many reviews on the internet that are saying
the same thing
believe what you want.
I saw the latest commercial for FSX on tv
and you know it's funny........ even in the commercial
when the stunt plane is flying between the obsticals
I noticed dropped frames......
it's absolutly shameless
give em your money if you want.

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jonesey2k
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Post by jonesey2k »

msalama wrote:
Try a few good FPS' like FEAR or HL2 :lol: Quake 4 is a laugh too.


What a coincidence - I'm downloading the Doom 3 demo at the moment because I thought to give the old bugger a try just for the hell of it after all these years :lol: I was H-E-A-V-I-L-Y into the original, played it for months and months back then... you guys ever tried the new version, and what're your impressions if you have? Looks stunning at any rate if screenshots are any indication...

Also, try out IL-2 if you're bored with M$ but still want to fly. Tons and tons of fun that one!
Off topic.
You need to play it in the dark at night, with the sound up :smile:
I dont know what level is on the demo but I played the full game at about 2 oclock in the morning with my 5.1 speakers on full, made me jump out of my seat a few times :lol:
Error 482: Somebody shot the server with a 12 gauge.

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Garry Russell
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Post by Garry Russell »

What about your poor neighbours :worried: ?

Garry
Last edited by Garry Russell on 14 Oct 2006, 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
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jonesey2k
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Post by jonesey2k »

Heh, the computer is set up in the room that is farthest from the other house. 505w worth of RR Speys :lol:
Error 482: Somebody shot the server with a 12 gauge.

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

airboatr wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
thats it????? thats your defense for FSX?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
youv'e got to be kidding
there are many reviews on the internet that are saying
the same thing
believe what you want.
Not defending anything. I am making a statement. Try reading all that I posted on that and the post before. The statement about Chaffin is that the guy's got issues and has an axe to grind with the community, thus take what his review says with a lot of skepticism. Not only that, but show me these "reviews" you speak of. I've seen 4 reviews to date and none of them are anywhere near as poor as his. Nor do any make any mention of his supposed need for WHQL Certificates for everything. Then again, most of his gauges are FS98, so that's where his problem is; he just doesn't want to admit that his supposed FS9 gauges aren't really FS9 gauges but repackaged FS98 ones.

When the software ACTUALLY comes out and is reviewed by credentialed reviewers and not from forum hacks (where most of the so-called "reviews" that are out now come from), look again.

Also, find me a single version of FS in the past 20 years that you could run with all sliders full right out of the box and get 30+ FPS right when the version was released? I've never been able to, I doubt there are very few that can say they were either. That's the nature of the beast. Unlike most game designers who built for current technology and thus the software is obsolete within a few months of release, Microsoft and ACES build their software with shelf life, that is, the newest version released will be cutting edge for 18-24 months after release. You can talk about other programs having better graphics and performance, but then other programs don't do what FS does. Ghost Recon: Advanced Warrior looks amazing, but it only deals in 3 dimensions and over very small areas (maybe 2 sq. km. per map) and small visual ranges (maybe 0.5km). So I'm getting better visuals because there isn't the need to process and display 1/20th of the items that FS needs to display. FS is dealing in 4 dimensions, PLUS having to calculate much more comlex physics than a FPS could ever think of. I have yet to find an FPS that has anything close to a satisfactory flight engine, so when you find one, I've got some beachside property in Arizona for you. :wink:

Let's break down some numbers for a better example of what I'm talking about -

FSX has, at full autogen with factory settings 4000 treees and 3000 buildings per square kilometer. Your nominal visual range is going to be ~12 square kilometers (~2 kilometer draw distance for autogen), so you'll have as many as 84,000 buildings and trees being drawn *in realtime* at any given moment. At minimum, you're looking at an average 5 polys per object (4 per tree, 6 per house), so your Graphics Card and CPU are having to process as many as 420,000 polys per cycle. That's just for autogen. That doesn't include the terrain, airports, or aircraft which can easily add another 400,000 polys with detailed airports in even slightly undulating terrain with AI traffic on, so you're looking at the "all-out" FS trying to process 820,000+ polys.

With GR:AW people and vehicles are approx. 30,000 polys, of which I've never seen more than 10 or 15 on screen at any given time, so that's no more than 450,000 polys being processed. In GRAW buildings, trees, and the "small" objects like trash and casings are very basic shapes using alpha channels to create detail, so here you're looking at another 20 polys per object there, and since you're only drawing 0.5km out at a time, you only have about 200 objects. So in total, you're looking at 454,000 or so polys being processed in total.'

Again, you're looking at things on the face of it and not thinking about what's required to get what you see. Because of that, you continue to say that M$ has "again" produced a "bad" program because it doesn't look as good or perform as well as various first person shooters that have about half the amount of processing to do compared to FS.

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Charlie Bravo
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Post by Charlie Bravo »

What a load of shit.

We all know that the autogen drags the performance down but lets look at the autogen..... basic squares and rectangles with a texture applied.
What the f*ck is it about a square or rectangle that drags my graphics card to it's knees? Poor programming my man and nothing less.

Sliders to the right out of the box..... mate FS9 is 3 years old and still struggles on my 2005/06 hardware. What does that say about the game?

MS games built with shelf life? B*llocks, they are built using old graphics engines that struggle with modern day hardware. The ATC is a joke and if my name were put on the box I would be ashamed.

I won't go on as I think FSX is shite and your arse is doing overtime.

Lots of love....
A bird in the hand will probably sh!t on your wrist.

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

CB - just because you choose not to know about processing graphics and program data doesn't mean that its "sh*t". It just means that you're not aware of what it takes to make a game perform. I've spent the time over the years to understand how a lot of this stuff works. While a lot of it *is* built off of old engines and such, how do you propose for them to create a 100% new engine and keep compatability with previous versions? You can't do it. I've watched several companies try with much simpler programs that dealt solely with text and had no graphics and it was amazing to watch how quickly they started putting back in modules from the old program to bridge between data from the old program and the new program. It created inefficiencies, but at least it meant that the customer didn't have to go back an re-do every bit of information they'd created within the program over the years of using the older version.

BTW, on my 2006 hardware, I get 30+ FPS with everything full right in FS9. The only problem I have is that FS9 can only handle 2X antialiasing off the graphics card, so I have to back off my 7800GT to account for it. Anything beyond 24 FPS is nothing more than extra. 24FPS is what your eyes can perceive, so if you can get 24FPS, you're getting as much speed as you need.

BTW, forgot to mention this - FSX runs (out of the box) with options adjustments at 20FPS on my machine. GRAW (out of the box) with options adjustments gets 20FPS. I think that's saying something for a program processing significantly more data than GRAW getting similar performance.

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