Cold War Jets Open Day

[SkippyBing]

Jim,

I imagine the speed to lift the nosewheel varies by aircraft type and centre of gravity position. The only reason I can think of for doing it other than show boating is to avoid nose wheel shimmy at higher speeds but I don't know how much of a problem that is in these types only having experienced it in a Cessna 150!
To be honest the most sensible precaution I can see coming out of this is reducing the max speed for these types of run to something like 50% of take off speed for that weight, not being a multis operator though I'm not sure if there are any implications to that. I can't see any justification for going faster than that though, from the public's point of view as I understand it they only stand at one end of the runway anyway so there'd be little change to the experience.

[Nigel H-J]

Having looked at a photograph of the 'Back to the Air' Victor and also watched the start of the fast taxi run on You Tube, it was a relatively windy day, the photo shows that the right aileron in the up position indicating correctional control.

From an 'armchair viewpoint' I don't think it was intentional, should the aircraft be close to the point of rotational speed then a sudden and unexpected gust of wind occurred, could this not just tip the wing of the aircraft over and over- reaction from the pilot would be to pull back slightly to give more space and prevent impacting the wing into the ground? Just an armchair thought. :think:

Regards
Nigel.

[SkippyBing]

From an 'armchair viewpoint' I don't think it was intentional, should the aircraft be close to the point of rotational speed then a sudden and unexpected gust of wind occurred, could this not just tip the wing of the aircraft over and over- reaction from the pilot would be to pull back slightly to give more space and prevent impacting the wing into the ground? Just an armchair thought.

Agreed, probably not intentional, but why was it going so fast? I think that's what's going to be looked at in any investigation.

[DaveB]

I dunno mate.. my first reaction wouldn't be to pull up to give it more space. That sounds like something my wife would say! Wouldn't it be a more natural reaction to use the aileron and get the high wing down.. or even the low wing up :think: The last thing I'd consider doing on a ground run in an aircraft 'out of compliance' and running out of runway would be to rotate/pull back on the yoke :o I guess you're trying to convince yourself that the gust of wind caught em out and made em fly :think: ;-) Whatever.. I think the bottom line is they were going too fast.. either too fast for the conditions or too fast in general. That's just my opinion and not worth the screen it's being read on

EDIT..
Looking at the elevators on that 'big' shot, they're neutral but of course, that only shows one split second of time. Obvious evidence of aileron activity but by this time the damage is done.. eg, they're well in the air.

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[Garry Russell]

Interesting Skip about the too fast comment

An interesting question was asked on another forum as to weather these fast run machines have to be maintained to arworthy standard (equipement, vital insruments, brakes etc). If not could that mean the ASI's are not fully calibtrated?

I'm not trying to fuel speculation but mention this as a direct resonse to a comment being made on speed not just here but elsewhere.

Garry

[SkippyBing]

An interesting question was asked on another forum as to weather these fast run machines have to be maintained to arworthy standard (equipement, vital insruments, brakes etc). If not could that mean the ASI's are not fully calibtrated?

We must stop reading the same forums! As far as I can tell there's no requirement to maintain them to airworthy standard as effectively they're museum pieces that can move. Also the CAA don't have any type certification etc. for the Victor and they're no longer under the MoD so who defines what an airworthy standard is? I think the people at Bruntingthorpe try to have as much as possible in working order but as to whether it's calibrated/fully serviceable I don't know, it would certainly add to the expense.
Still you can get a half decent GPS in your phone now which would give you your ground speed so as long as you kept a healthy margin between that and V1 you'd probably be ok!

[Techy111]

You all must think of one thing....this will attract a HUGE amount of interest and the next "fast taxi runs" at Brunty will be packed...

I'll be going....thats for sure....i mean....where else can you see a Victor still flying these days.....

Tony

[Tweek]

guess you're trying to convince yourself that the gust of wind caught em out and made em fly :think: ;-)

It's not impossible, and going by how far it went off the centreline of the runway - more over the grass than the tarmac at one point - the high crosswind would certainly explain why its 'flight' was so erratic.

[DaveB]

True mate but as the old saying goes.. for every action there is a reaction. Had they not been this close to the 'flight envelope'.. the worst that would've happened is them being blown off the runway. Laugh in the face of adversity, tweak the nose of terror and one day.. it might just bite your @rse ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[Hot_Charlie]

I have to admit reading an interesting post in a very very dark old corner of the web by a chap who may or may not have been the pilot in question on Sunday. In it, it mentioned speeds to which the aircraft involved had been taken (several years ago), which were, shall we say, quite high IMO. I'd be interested to see some example speeds for Victor take offs.