Classic British Flight Sim

The Harrier went to war and was a great success.......seems like a pretty useful load to me!

If it can take off vertically, even if that means a reduction in payload or range.....and then does it's job and to return and land vertically, what more can you say! :dance:


Garry

Garry Russell wrote:The Harrier went to war and was a great success.......seems like a pretty useful load to me!

If it can take off vertically, even if that means a reduction in payload or range.....and then does it's job and to return and land vertically, what more can you say! :dance:


Garry

Yes, but the P1127 was nothing like the Harrier in terms of capability. In fact my ex-father in law (who was at Wittering when they first Harriers arrived, specialist in bang seats at that point) always says he can remember that the first GR1s struggled to get from one side of Wittering to the other.

AndyG

The GR1 certainly couldnt takeoff vertically with a great deal of load, the engines were upgraded a couple of times and the Sea Harrier and especially the AV8B/GR5/GR7/GR9 perform much better.

Chris Trott wrote:

Kevin wrote: - Supermarine S6B, ratified World Air Speed Record, 407 mph, in 1931!!!!

Sorry, meant FIGHTER. Any previous excession of 400 MPH was by experimental aircraft.

Well, the operational debut of the Corsair was with VMF-124, February 1943. By that time, the Spitfire IX had been in service for eight months and was a genuine 400 mph+ aeroplane. Incidentally, the Bf-109G also exceeded 400 mph in level flight, and entered service in late 1942.

Cheers,

Kevin

Jetty,

If you are taking up Toby's creation then I want to play as well! Don't be selfish now mate. Remember to share your toys with the other boys!

Kevin wrote:Well, the operational debut of the Corsair was with VMF-124, February 1943. By that time, the Spitfire IX had been in service for eight months and was a genuine 400 mph+ aeroplane. Incidentally, the Bf-109G also exceeded 400 mph in level flight, and entered service in late 1942.

Actually, the Corsair's COMBAT debut was with VMF-124 in 1943. The OPERATIONAL debut (i.e. first squadron to reach Initial Operational Capability) was VF-17 which completed Carrier Qualifications and was declared Operationally Ready in late September 1942. However, the XF4U-1 (the production prototype) exceeded 400 MPH in level flight on 1 October 1940. This aircraft was fully equipped with weapons and armor, however Navy acquisition had not yet caught up with the War yet and aircraft still underwent relatively protracted development programs prior to introduction into service. Full production began in June 1941 with first deliveries occuring in June 1942.

TobyV wrote:Whats the thrust to weight ratio of a Lightning then... IIRC that can climb at 89 degrees and that angle the contribution of lift force in the direction opposite to the gravtational force on the aircraft must be negligible :think:

According to Jane's and Wikipedia, 0.69:1 is the "official" T-W ratio for the Lightning.

I know the Lightning has impressive climb performance in intercept configuration, but that involves a pretty small fuel load.

Chris Trott wrote:

VEGAS wrote:Wonder what Mr Trott's selection will be?

No let me guess..

1. Boeing ...........?

2. Douglas ..........?

3. Lockheed .........?

Fill in the blanks Chris!

Well, ye'd be wrong on all 3 counts. In no particular order:

3) McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle

Actually chris he did predict one of them, Douglas and McDonnell Douglas are the same company.

TobyV wrote:...the engines were upgraded a couple of times and the Sea Harrier and especially the AV8B/GR5/GR7/GR9 perform much better.

As were the engines on the F-15, the aircraft gained almost 8,000 pounds of additional thrust when the F-15As were put through the SLEP program and equipped with the F100-PW-220E (F100-PW-100 modified to the 220 "Equivalent") engines with no appreciable gain in weight. The F-15C was delivered with the F100-PW-220, and then has subsequently been upgraded with the F100-PW-229 that powers the F-15E and that gained the aircraft almost 10,000 additional pounds of thrust, again for almost no gain in overall weight.

The point was the first versions, not the later ones.

Chris,

If you ever take off the stars-and-stripes propellor hat, there's a place waiting for you on the Pakistan cricket team: you've changed the rules in the middle of the game. :brick:

You eliminate the S6B (nine years before the Corsair flew, 11 years before it entered service) because it was 'experimental'. :tuttut:

Then you claim a prototype (the 'X' in XF4U stands for experimental, by the way), which required two more full years of development before entering service, several months AFTER the Spit IX. If we can claim experimental fighter prototypes, that's a different story and other aeroplanes come into contention.

I would be very wary of accepting some of the claims of manufacturers for level speed on unique prototype airframes - Bell exaggerated the P-39's performance to gain orders and others had little understanding of the effects of position error and compressibility, which could increase an ASI reading by 10-15 mph in some cases.

The first aeroplane capable of achieving 400 mph or more in level flight, in service, anywhere in the world, was the Supermarine Spitfire MkIX, fitted with a Merlin 61, in July 1942.

And, by the way, what on Earth were VF-17 doing with their Corsairs, if they were operational, but didn't see combat for at least 6 months??

Cheers,

Kevin