Avro, HP & Vickers

[Garry Russell]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread212956/pg1

An interesting thread from 2008 in that it shows the three "Comet replacement" types in one place.

One thing to bear in mind, is, had the VC-7 gone into service, or any of these for that matter there would not have been the hot and high African route problem at the end of the 1950's as the airport would have been adapted to accept the standard types before the VC 10 case time line as in fact they did a few years later.

In that case, the VC 10 would never have been. There may well of course been a VC 10 to follow on from the VC 7, but not as we know it, maybe more like the Comet 5, the one with wing hung podded engines. The VC 10 might have been a Super type fuse (there is a similarity with the model of the VC-7 and a VC 10 front end) with a conventional tail and four podded engines hanging from the wing.

Just me theorising, but the muck up of the next generation of TA airliners did in a way have some benefit even if Vickers never made money on it.

[Chris558]

It's funny how BOAC didn't want the VC7, and then later want the VC10 which basically did the same thing - short field performance.

The 'two-in-one' design of VC7/V1000 might have been favourable to produce, but probably wasn't a very realistic idea for a design shared between Air Force and Airline.

The Comet 4 was never a match for the 707 as it was too small. I don't know if the proposed Comet 5 would have been too late to compete with it.

[Garry Russell]

TBH I don't think BOAC ever wanted the VC 10 as they had their heart set on the 707 before then but that couldn't operate from the Empire routes. The VC 10 was an answer to their need rather than something they wanted.

The Comet 5 was a ruse

It was offered purely to be rejected in favour of the superior 707 to allow BOAC to buy the Boeing.

They had to proposed a British alternate that they had no intention whatsoever of buying.

The 5 was basically a stretched 4 with a conventional tail, new wings and four podded Conways but I doubt that it was even a serious design, rather sometime knocked up to look like something no one was really thinking about. It was done so that those making the decision could see that the 707 was superior in all respects, which it was at the time, but BOAC themselves had limited large jet design by saying the Comet 4 and Britannia would meet all their needs and they were not looking for a jet at the time the 707 was coming about. Later they turn round and state they need a British jet to compete but their isn't one. The 707 was supposed to be a stop gap, a fleet to tied over until something British was on line.

Even then, they must have realised that a specialised 'Empire' jet would be of little interest to anyone else, including themselves after a few years. But of course that would only strengthen their case for Boeings.

The Comet 4 was really the Comet 3 with a few extra mods and should have been in service about four years before and would have been more successful then. By the time the 4 was ready the jet age had already moved on to be bigger.