Trident Plane Outsped Sabre Fighter!!!

[Aharon]

Shalom and greetings all my pals,

I was reading various aviation forums regarding discussion about Trident planes' operation in Gibraltar International Airport. Some Trident pilot mentioned one incident where Trident strayed into Spanish airspace by mistake and Spain scrambled two Sabre jet fighters to intercept Trident. The Trident pilot noticed that on his cockpit radar, pushed his throttles forward to increase speed to Mach 0.89, and managed to escape and outspeed two Spanish air force Sabre jet fighters!!!

Amazing!

Regards,

Aharon

[airboatr]

Mac?..

[Paul K]

I was reading various aviation forums regarding discussion about Trident planes' operation in Gibraltar International Airport. Some Trident pilot mentioned one incident where Trident strayed into Spanish airspace by mistake and Spain scrambled two Sabre jet fighters to intercept Trident. The Trident pilot noticed that on his cockpit radar, pushed his throttles forward to increase speed to Mach 0.89, and managed to escape and outspeed two Spanish air force Sabre jet fighters!!! Amazing!

Amazing ? It depends on how far the Trident had strayed into Spanish air space, and how far the Spanish Airforce Sabres had to travel in order to intercept the Trident. If the Trident was, say, half a mile into Spanish airspace, it would only have taken a moment or two to vacate the area. Meanwhile, the Sabres might only just be getting airborne.

Spain scrambled two Sabre jet fighters to intercept Trident. The Trident pilot noticed that on his cockpit radar,

Did the Trident ever have a radar that would show intercepting fighters ? I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it did.

[Aharon]

Did the Trident ever have a radar that would show intercepting fighters ? I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it did.

That is good question because I wonder how the British based airline Trident pilot knew that Spanish air force Sabre jet fighters were scrambling to intercept his plane. Maybe it is possible that Gibraltar International Airport's airport control tower's radars spotted that and alerted the British based airline pilot to warn him of the incoming Spanish Air Force Sabre jet fighters.

Either way, the airline pilot was aware of Spanish air force Sabre jet fighters scrambling to intercept his airline plane full of passengers and he increased speed to mach 0.89 to get away. Also I am told that Trident even full loaded with passengers was capable of going above mach 0.89.

Regards,

Aharon

[Kevin Farnell]

Did the Trident ever have a radar that would show intercepting fighters ? I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it did.

That was my first thought, Paul.
I would imagine that weather radar would be fitted, but can't imagine radar to detect other aircraft. This would have pre-dated TCAS, so that's excluded too.

Did the Trident ever have a radar that would show intercepting fighters ? I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it did.

That is good question because I wonder how the British based airline Trident pilot knew that Spanish air force Sabre jet fighters were scrambling to intercept his plane. Maybe it is possible that Gibraltar International Airport's airport control tower's radars spotted that and alerted the British based airline pilot to warn him of the incoming Spanish Air Force Sabre jet fighters.

Aharon

I would assume, that if Gibraltar ATC had the capability to see military scrambling from within Spain, it would have been well within their capabilities to notice that the Trident was straying into Spanish airspace and would have acted on that earlier.

Kevin

[cstorey]

It sounds like absolute rubbish to me. On the few occasions I went to Gibraltar, we always went right across Spain

[Aharon]

It sounds like absolute rubbish to me. On the few occasions I went to Gibraltar, we always went right across Spain

Not true. I watched a documentary about dangerous airports and they named Gibraltar as one of ten most dangerous airports. I was totally baffled because it was easy to land without any dangerous terrain but the documentary said that because Spain refuses to recognize Gibraltar and refuses to allow any British based airline planes to fly through Spanish air space to get to Gibraltar therefore any British based airline plane would face dangerous approach to the island because the method to avoid Spanish air space involves flying through very windy approach instead of very comfortable and much safer approach.

Any modern airline pilot working for any British based airline who flies all the time to Gibraltar International Airport would tell you this. Any airline who is not British based such as Finnair or Air Finland or so on is allowed to use normal and safer approach to Gibraltar International Airport.

Regards,

Aharon

[DaveB]

I think that's the difference between a straight forward approach and a not so straight forward approach Aharon rather than it being difficult. Gibraltar is (can be) a dangerous airport to land at because of the Rock playing havoc with the wind currents.. nothing to do with being able to fly over Spain. Should the headwind be coming from the north (from Spain).. you'd land from seaward anyway.

ATB
DaveB

[plumber]

In 1967 2 Hunters from 1 and 54 Sqdns were based alternately on Gib with fully armed 30mm Cannon, but with the fuzes in my pocket in the case of 54. We provided escorts to UK civilian Flights. The Sabres used to fly up and down the border but when we launched the Hunters they used to whip back into the mainland. They were really tatty looking a/c ex Korean War. On occasion 2x104's used to scream down the border then go back inland. I was on the first deployment to Gib we flew in by Brittania over the bay then a hard right turn to align with the runway, you looked out the window straight into the sea, a bit scary. The Brit then went on to Jorden with loads of medical equipment.

[cstorey]

Interesting what Plumber says about 1967. My experiences were much later by which time overt tension had subsided. There is only one runway at Gib , running roughly east west ( I have not got the let down plate so cannot be more accurate ) and the hairy part of it is caused by the terrain, with which Aharon is clearly unfamiliar, with the Rock on the south side of the runway, and some highish ground say 6 NM west of the runway near Algeciras so that for an easterly landing , which is frequent, the only practicable routing is into the straits on the east side of the Rock , turn down wind south of the Rock and approach over the bay of Algeciras . If there is any southerly component in the wind the Rock produces really quite nasty turbulence the whole way down the approach to a relatively short runway which is one of the reasons why special training was given