Classic British Flight Sim

PeteP wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2023, 16:42

Which does raise the interesting question of how they got an aeroplane with around 3000 statute miles (2.6K NM) max range there and back.

Hence me asking here where did that plane stop for refueling stopovers during delivery flight from England to New Zealand which is WHOPPING 10,000 nautlical mile route.

Regards,

Aharon

Its a guess, but I wonder if they had ferry tanks fitted?

This thread from Mark (HJG) is worth reading http://www.nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&p ... 4ff18d4a50
Dale
Edit: Haha Aharon, I see you already have.

TSR2 wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2023, 17:58

Its a guess, but I wonder if they had ferry tanks fitted?

I do not think so as it was not worth and it was cost prohibitive to have ferry tanks fitted for short term leases. My guess is LOTS LOTS of refuel stopovers from London to New Zealand. The interesting question is WHERE.

Regards,

Aharon

The over the pole great circle route, which is the shortest, is not practical with a short range aeroplane because there are virtually no fuel stops within reach. So you need to take a rhumb line route across Asia . I would suggest that Luton - Athens or Cyprus - Dubai - Southern India - Singapore - Darwin - Sydney gives an idea of the options available

Not that long ago I did a flight in the simulator from Australia to England in a Tiger Moth. Took me over 60 legs to do it, through Indonesia, Thailand, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and up into Europe, the longest leg was 307nm. Now the distance from Australia to New Zealand would be farther than that but a B732 has a much longer range than a DH82.

If I was to plan a delivery flight from England to New Zealand I would probably Egypt, India, Singapore, Australia and then New Zealand.

Aharon , Looking at map ,and remembering back to '86-'87 [when we { BA Airtours } leased WE from Britts ] . It looks like a 5 leg trip to NZ .
With pax , 732s could easily make UK- Eastern Med . Without pax , they might have got to the Gulf .
Thus a 1 stop , 1st days work UK-S.India . 2nd day S. India through Singapore to W. Australia . 3rd days work W. OZ thorough E. OZ to NZ .
All subject to wx , arrival slots at dawn , time changes , political overflight clearances , crew rest , fueling , etc.
Could conceivably leave LUT Mon. night , arrive AKL Fri. afternoon . That is a straight through flight with only 12hrs night stops along the way .
Some of those days are extremely long at M.72 , thus longer crew rests may be involved ... Unless ''cheekily'' they took 2 crews !
And all subject to a 732's empty range .

rgds dave f.

Dave,

Thanks for interesting answers

Regards,

Aharon

Look .... you are making a difficulty out of one which does not really exist. How do you imagine Boeing delivered the a/c in the first place ? There were no sectors between UK and NZ which were beyond the range of a 737-200 , and all of them had alternates to either side of the route along almost the whole distance . Probably the most theoretically problematic sector was the last one from ( say ) Brisbane to Auckland , but even there your maximum exposure overwater was 600NM or so, because if you hit a problem in either direction you just turned back

CS , in commercial service the B732s were not certified as ETOPs a/c [ Extended range Twin Operations ] .
Thus with pax on you had always to be within 1 hour [ at single engine speed ] of a 'Suitable A/D . Not sure how long the RWYs at Lord Howe and Norfolk Island are ? If long enough that would permit Trans Tasman hops .
Delivery flts could perhaps be classified as 'Private , and the 1 hr rule ignored .
Lufhansa was the first to use 737 BBJs [ Boeing Business Jets ] with ETOPs certification on Trans Atlantic routes using an all business seating of approx. 30 pax.
Now everyone is doing it with single aisle a/c , A320 series and 738s/Max , JFK - LHR/AMS/CDG with Jetblue for one . And Qantas , Jetstar , ANZ trans Tasman hopping with B738s and A321Neos .
Our 'Boi is just doing his ETOPs training with Jetstar on A320s/321s , based out of AKL for E. Oz routes and some Pacific Isles . I'll have to ask him what the single engine time is allowed from 'Adequate And 'Suitable A/Ds .
B767s were 180 minute and B757s 138 mins. ANZ on B777s and B787 use 5 hrs !

rgds dave f.