Dove differences...

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 17 May 2006, 21:07

Can anyone explain to me the visual differences between the various early marks of Dove? I want to paint one but according to G-INFO, its a 1B and I know Dave's model is a Mk5 or 6 but I cant spot the difference. Seems to have the glass cockpit roof and similar engines and props (unlike the Mk.8 with the re-designed roof and windows and the extra intake above the engine and the big exhausts).

:think:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 17 May 2006, 21:22

Toby

I think the main visual was that it had the complete tailplane but some might have been modified later

Pick the Channel or British Eagle whichever matches the cockpit and the difference are not that great,a bit like the T2 painted as a T1 few will know the difference.

The main one to avoid is the 7/8 with the Heron 2 Canopy and different shaped engine nacelles

Garry

Post by **DaveB** » 17 May 2006, 21:56

Toby..

A Dove 1B is a standard Dove updated to either GQ 70-4 or 70Mk2 engine with Split Barrel Propellers and large oil coolers. MAUW remains the same as the Dove 1 at 8500lb

For ref.. the letter 'A' after a series number indicates the aircraft has been modified to a standard agreed by the American CAA for aircraft operating under their jurisdiction.
Aircraft with the letter 'B' after the series number is as for the first para.

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 17 May 2006, 22:13

Dave

Did all Dove 1's keep the full tailpalne or wer they modified?

Garry

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 17 May 2006, 22:13

I know about the A and B bit Dave, same thing applies to HS125s (although latterly all 125s were spec'd to the higher FAA standards so it doesnt make so much difference). Think I will go ahead with this one, since there isnt a Heron yet (which would be a more appropriate aircraft for this project). Only problem is I only have one b&w photo of this bird and it was exported to Iraq of all places and there arent any photos of it on the net... could be interesting :think:

Post by **DaveB** » 17 May 2006, 22:53

Hi Toby,

Basically.. there is little externally to differenciate between the early Doves (up to ver6). The majority of changes were to engine fit and then interior fit plus the designations listed above.
Dove1 8 or 8-11 pax 8500lb GQ 70-1 basic production model
Dove1A as above but for US market mod 480
Dove1B as above but with uprated engine mod 515
Dove2 4-6pax 8500lb GQ 70-1 basic production model
Dove2A as above but for US market mod 482
Dove2B as above but with GQ 70-4 mod 527
Dove3 projected High Alt version
Dove4.. Devon C Mk1 and Sea Devon Mk20
Dove5 8-11pax 8800lb GQ 70Mk2 mod 558
Dove5A as above but for US market mod 696
Dove5B as above but 8500lb GQ 70-Mk2 mod 516
Dove5BA as above mod 683
Dove6 4-6pax 8800lb GQ 70 Mk2 mod 559
Dove6A as above but for US market mod 697
Dove6B as above but 8500lb GQ 70 Mk2 mod 517
Dove6BA as above but with mod 684

The biggest visual changes came in the series 8 having bigger engines, bigger oil cooler intakes, bigger exausts and increased headroom afforded by use of Heron hard top. So.. basically, you can get away with murder up to a Series 8

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 17 May 2006, 22:58

Dave

Was the 7 similar to the 8?

Garry

Post by **DaveB** » 18 May 2006, 00:50

Hi Garry,

The Series 7 seems to lead or has led somthing of a backstage existance in that it is largely missed. The information posted above is from a genuine DH Servicing School manual and only goes up to and including series 6 but.. I have another document (genuine too) publised by DH for RAE and is a performance schedule for the Series 7 and 8. There is no difference between the two performance-wise (the 7 is not listed differently to the 8 and vice versa) so my guess is that the actual differences were down to DH mods.
I think that what it all boils down to is that the Dove8 (oddly enough) seemed to appear before the Dove7 and the only major difference is in the seating. An 8-11 pax version of the Dove8 (designated Dove7) was offered to (and two delivered) to the Royal Malayan Air Force on Sept6 '61 and one to the United Arab Republic on the following day.
This is the only mention of a Dove7 that I can find

[edit] Reason for the above is that DH probably had plans drawn and ready for a Srs7 but only intended to release the 'exec' (non transport) version. This would keep their numbering convention in place

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 18 May 2006, 00:59

Thanks Dave

That makes sense as it was a rare one . I can only remember seeing one that carried the designation and that was 7XC which sounds sort of modified. :think:

Going back to an earlier quest was the tailplane generally left on the early ones of were they mostly modified as that would be the only major visual difference.

Garry

Post by **DaveB** » 18 May 2006, 01:22

Hi Garry,

As you probably know, the Dove is/was pretty much like the old Austin Mini

Series 7 were very thin on the ground with only 9 out of the total production run being to this specification.
Serial:04522 FM1052 Royal Malaysian Air Force.. c/s 9M-EBB
Serial:04523 FM1053 Royal Malaysian Air Force.. c/s 9M-ECC
Serial:04524 906 Egyptian Air Force
Serial:04530 194 Irish Air Corps c/s EB-DIB
Serial:04534 CN-MBA Moroccan Ministry of Defence
Serial:04535 DN-MBB Moroccan Ministry of Defence
Serial:04537 803 Imperial Ethiopian Air Force. Reg G-ASYR to Minister of Aviation 20 Nov 64 for del, CofA 5 Jan65. To Imperial Ethiopian Air Force with serial 803.
Serial:04539 120 Royal Jordanian Air Force
Serial:04540 121 Royal Jordanian Air Force

It is difficult, nay, impossible to actually nail down when the elevator mod was carried out. My DH Servicing School manual is dated '61 and shows the mod in place at that time. I can find no evidence to suggest that the LH elevator was modified at defined service intervals but this seems likely

ATB

DaveB :tab: