Against a threatening Sky

VEGAS · Post by **VEGAS** » 18 May 2006, 23:43

Leif you cheesy old thing you! Seems you have a knack for this. Another belter of a shot. Cheers!

Motormouse · Post by **Motormouse** » 20 May 2006, 11:52

DispatchDragon wrote:If I may - One more - and again yes - I know its not true to life - I dont think
617 ever went above 1000 feet that night

1,500 akshully, but only for a little teeny bit,
more precise info here

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/chastise_op1.html

ttfn

Pete

Post by **DaveB** » 20 May 2006, 11:58

For sure, on that infamous raid.. 1500 was tops but long pause how high did these guys fly after the Dams raid?? 617 remained active as the Pathfinder Sqn so does anyone know what height these sorties were flown at?? :think:

[edit] Perhaps the proverbial knickers are in a slight twist here as 97Sqn was the Pathfinder Sqn.. elements of 617 being formed from it!

ATB

DaveB :tab:

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 20 May 2006, 12:24

Ok Im going to show my ignorance - I know what Tinsel and Mandrel
were - but what is "Nickel" they refer to as not to be dropped

and thank you for the link

Leif

Post by **Garry Russell** » 20 May 2006, 12:52

Nice one Leif

Another cracking shot

Garry

steve p · Post by **steve p** » 25 May 2006, 15:11

DispatchDragon wrote:...what is "Nickel" they refer to as not to be dropped

Leif

Propoganda leaflets.

Best wishes
Steve P

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 25 May 2006, 16:38

Thank you Steve

Leif

cstorey · Post by **cstorey** » 25 May 2006, 18:43

Paul Brickhill's book gives a great deal of history on 617's later career. It was involved in delivery of a number of Barnes Wallis's special weapons including (from memory) the tallboy penetration bomb for concrete pens etc, and the Grand Slam earthquake bomb, as well as attacks on Tirpitz etc. The special weapons for high penetration certainly had to be delivered from high level ( c 22,000 feet) to get the penetrative energy

I may not be wholly accurate but this is a broad outline

Chris

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 25 May 2006, 19:12

Actually Chris thats a very good outline

I have Brickhill's book in penguin paperpback no less , the publication date I believe is 1957. It always seems sad to me that after a very auspicious career that Gibson was to die basically hanging around to get BDA information.

Leif

PS I remember seeing the movie at a little cinema sponsored by Gloster Aircraft Company in Hucclecote affectionatly known as the "bughouse'

Jon.M · Post by **Jon.M** » 25 May 2006, 19:49

Further to Chris's post.

After the dams raid 617 became a precision bombing squadron using the SABS bombsight. They were so accurate with it that the marking of targets by the pathfinders was nowhere near accurate enough. Leonard Cheshire developed low level dive bombing marking using first the Lancaster (very hairy) and later Mosquitoes and Mustangs.

They got so good at it that on one raid against the Michellin factory they destroyed the three workshops without damaging the worker's canteen let alone the nearby town. The marking planes flew three low passes to give the French workers time to get out.

They did sink the Tirpitz and the Lutzow as well as destroy U boat pens and V weapon sites, the Dortmund-Emms canal and numerous bridges and viaducts.

On the 7th October 44 they destroyed another dam, the Kembs dam on the Rhine, as neither the bouncing bombs or the converted Lancs were available they dropped Tallboys from low level over the lake so that the bombs were embedded in the wall of the dam horizontally.

The 6 ton Tallboys were usually dropped from 16,000 feet instead of the 40,000ft they were designed for as the Lancaster couldn't carry them higher. The 10 ton Grand Slams were presumably dropped from even lower.

Paul Brickhill asked an Air Marshal what he thought 617 squadron was worth and he said "I suppose 617 was the most effective unit of it's size the British ever had."

I've just re read the book since the anniversary of the raid.

Jon