Back from my holiday

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 20 Jul 2006, 19:23

Hi Guys,

My good lady and I are back from Majorca suitably relaxed , if a bit frazzled 'round the edges from the heat. Will spend the next day or so catching up on things, PM me if there's anything urgent that needs my attention.

Rgds

John

Post by **MALTBY D** » 20 Jul 2006, 22:41

Welcome back John.
Nice to come back to scorchio weather here too?

This is nothing urgent, but I may as well post it here instead of starting another thread.
Just taken a Trident 3 flight & noticed that the weights given in the Pre Flight briefing don't look right. I adjust my payload to match these days, so I'm paying more attention.

It said
Passengers tonnes: 12.2
Cargo tonnes: 11.2
Zero Fuel Weight: 61.1

But 61.1 t ZFW is way overloaded.
The FlyNet aircraft types data says Max Zero Fuel is only 52400 kg

The full list of weights given is
Dry Operating Weight 37650 kg
Max Zero Fuel Weight 52400 kg
Max Take Off Weight 68000 kg
Cargo Capacity 12700 kg

These are close to the figures I've got, along with a Max payload figure of 14,696 kg
That seems about right, 37650 (empty) + 14696 = 52346 (Max ZFW)

If it's something that's easy to alter can you take a look at it.
If not, don't bother with it.

DM

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:00

Hi Dave,

Yes, at the moment there is a problem with some aircraft being overweight - the Vanguard is another one. The reason for this is because, at the moment, the MZFW is not actually being used by FlyNET. I think this is on Konny's 'to-do' list for a future update. There are quite a few anomolies regarding pax/cargo loads which I am trying to get my head around - why does only the BAC1-11 200 carry cargo? The 400/500 always seem to have a zero cargo load, as do many of the aircraft which have a smaller cargo capacity.

My guess is at some point the client will give you a pax load according to the factored calculations and then 'top up' with cargo until MZFW is reached. Until this is implemented all we can do is load our aircraft to max weight and reap virtual financial benefit of any additional 'load' that FlyNET give us.

I would like to be able to have an option to restrict pax loads/weight on some sectors to avoid overloading of aircraft but sadly that option is not available at the moment.

Rgds

John

Post by **MALTBY D** » 21 Jul 2006, 14:04

Thanks John

The bit you said about the Vanguard jogged my memory & I read my other thread about payload weight again.
You kind of answered this back then as well, but that bit didn't quite reach my brain. :madhead:
The 1-11 (500 & 400) weights have seemed ok, so it's probably a good idea to just load the passenger weight from the briefing into FS, not passenger+cargo.

DM

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 21 Jul 2006, 16:11

If I maybe so bold

All the 1-11s (300/400)I dealt with never carried any cargo perse because with 89 pax the aircraft maxed out (and with the bucket and spade brigade)
bulked out long before you could carry any cargo...if you figure 70 passengers with 2 bags a piece that pretty much filled both the front and rear pits even Courts 500s bulked out with 119 on board. Im sure that BEAs super would have been the same except for maybe a couple hundred pounds of mail

Leif

Post by **Garry Russell** » 21 Jul 2006, 16:52

Hi Leif

What were the Dan 500 pax loads 119 is fairly high, must be near the normal max.

BEA were 99 seater.....wonder how many Channel would have got in a 500?

Garry

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 21 Jul 2006, 20:41

Hi Leif,

I know what you are saying is true especially for the bucket and spaders. I know that a lot of the BEA flights did carry cargo, be it mail/small packages etc as did a lot of the smaller aircraft. It's just a bit odd that for the aircraft that have a smaller cargo capacity FlyNET ignores it altogether. If you have a good rep and a max pax load, within the scope of MZFW (whenever it gets incorporated) you SHOULD be able to carry a bit of cargo but currently you get zilch.

Rgds

John

Post by **Garry Russell** » 21 Jul 2006, 21:14

Hi John

Thats why I raised the capacity. With only 99 on the BEA there would have been more chance of room for cargo.

Garry

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 23 Jul 2006, 20:43

I think I figured out where the issue is. Cargo room is TOTAL cargo weight available. The system eliminates cargo weight as it adds passengers to simulate the addition of their bags. Thus, if the weight of bags is at or greater than the available cargo, you don't get paid for any cargo.

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 23 Jul 2006, 21:33

Hi Chris,

Thanks for that, I've just done a few calcs and that would appear to be the case. I think the baggage weight is rather generous though as it works out at 25kgs per passenger. This makes the flight briefing document even more of an issue as it gives you a passenger weight and a cargo weight (if any) but the baggage weight is 'invisible'. It would appear that the standard passenger weight on FlyNET is 82kgs.

For a Trident flight with max load this equates to :-

Passengers : 149 x 82 = 12218kgs
Baggage : 149 x 25 = 3725kgs
Cargo: 12,700 - 3725 = 8975kgs

Total load = 24,918kgs

Aircraft MZFW - Dry weight = 14,750

FlyNET overload = 10,168kgs

Oh well, I'm sure there must be lots of aircraft on the flynet database that have similar 'problems' so I guess until a definitive 'fix' comes out we'll carry on getting the extra virtual revenue.

I think the way forward for those VA's that want to be as real as possible, we need to be able to restrict baggage weights (15kgs domestic and 20kgs international) and also restrict pax numbers on flights that need to trade pax/baggage weight for fuel.

Rgds

John