MSFS team members blogs:

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 27 Aug 2006, 00:02

Dave, if I remember correctly, ProFlight 2000 was (for its time) a massive addon that took up the better part of a Gigabyte of space on its own. I know that FSCopilot for FS2000 and FS2002 are both fairly large programs and they only have about 20 sound sets and about 1/3-1/2 of the amount of samples as ProFlight 2000 has.

As for the ACES team decisions, the thing I keep noticing about all that continue to make the comments that include the whole wildlife issue is that they are all hard-core simmers. We're the vast minority in the users of FS, and ACES can't build to our likings because of that. They have to sell and eye candy sells more than some of the stuff we pick on. And yes, they're limited on space and because (again) eye candy sells more than the background stuff, guess what - they're gonna dump the space hog ATC stuff and let those who want a greater diversity go in and modify it themselves either by creating a program like Radar Contact, ProFlight 2000 and selling it for those who are interested, or by building a freeware addon that covers a small area (like the UK). Since RC made mdifications to the FS9 ATC system to allow more regionalized use, I have to believe that it's going to be possible to do in FSX and thus for those of us who want accents, we can add them in, we just have to provide the correct information for the CFG files and the sound files in the proper format.

M$ sold something like 2.5 million copies of FS9 during its lifespan if I remember correctly. I've yet to see a single payware addon, even the really popular ones, break 500,000 units. When I was with SGA, FlightSoft told us that they'd be doing gangbuster sales to sell 30,000 units of each of the "Fly to" series. The PIC series is probably lucky to get 100,000 units of each installment sold. Most of these heavier addons out there reach a very small amount of the total sales of the product so unfortunately, while they try to get as much as possible to make us (the hard core gamers) happy, they have to make marketing decisions and ensure that they are putting all of the stuff that will sell copies to a larger audience out there.

We can complain all we want, but at the end of the day, M$ has to make money off the sales of FSX, we don't, and that's what keeps me from making too many derogatory comments about the program because I keep that in mind when I look at what is "missing" from this version.

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 27 Aug 2006, 01:07

Dare I ask why you all, well not all but..., are so interested in the ATC voices, as I remember a poll going on about who used the ATC or not, and a overwhelming amount didn't use it at all... :think:

There can of course be several reasons why one don't want to use the build-in ATC, but if you don't use it, why bother?

Btw. I believe that FSX is/will be developed for the use of/with the coming DirectX10, which I doubt anyone has had the pleasure of testing, or am I wrong? The new version of DX might be a motherf....of an engine...but then again, it might not....I hold my breath though.

Post by **DaveB** » 27 Aug 2006, 01:21

Read and totally understood Chris. I know how the 'money-men' work and how they ultimately pull the strings. As what can be considered a more 'hard core' user, it doens't detract from the disappointment I feel that more 'As Real As It Get's' elements were not (or are not to be) included in FSX as were it not for the 'hard core' simmer, I doubt very much if FS would be in the position it is today.

What they fail to realise (or care about.. financially) is that many (most) of us will never use much of what comes with the standard package as with each new version, many of the improvements are percieved rather than required. It's not all bad news mind you even though it may seem so. FS9 is the only version I've been able to load onto a current pc that will run equally well AND look better at the same time and for that, they are to be commended. The last thing anyone wants is poorer performance and that was the norm prior to FS9. There are notable dogs as there will always be and FS2000 gets the 'Gong' for being that dog!

I don't see much evidence to suggest that FSX will run to the same standard without a hardware upgrade mind you. :roll:

In the event, many will buy it.. use it a handful of times and that's it and it is these people that M$ are aiming for. Once a unit is sold, it's money in the bank isn't it. Who cares how good or bad the product is.. the 'serious' user will make of it what he/she can and spend a lot of time and effort getting it to do what the previous version did. The bottom line here is that 'As Real As It Get's' should be qualified by a further statement.. 'for Â£50' or whatever it is we'll end up forking out. It's certainly not as real as it gets but its probably the best you can get for the asking price

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **DaveB** » 27 Aug 2006, 01:28

Dan.. in reply to your last, we don't use the native ATC as it's rubbish mate, pure and simple. If it were better, many more would (I'm sure) use it so.. it's not that we're all idle gits, we choose not to use a substandard feature

ATB

DaveB :tab:

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 27 Aug 2006, 01:36

Argument accepted

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 27 Aug 2006, 15:44

Looks like the guys over at M$ have been lurking....

http://blogs.technet.com/p-12c_pilot/default.aspx

First post is most relevant to what we've been talking about. Third should help alay some of the fears from Rick, DaveG, and David M because it gives one of the first real lists of "backend" improvements to the flight models and visual model animations.

Sadly, I think it means that you'll only be able to use GMAX or whatever version of GMAX they include to do most of these since by all indications FSDS is dead.

Post by **Rick Piper** » 27 Aug 2006, 16:37

Hi Chris

FSDS uses makemdl so your barking up the wrong tree saying FSDS is dead.

GMAX is more dead as it died development wise 9 months ago.

they are as alive/dead as each other.

it's the old Coke/Pepsi argument.

they both do the same job, it just depends which you like better.

80% of those new features are only new to M$ as they have been done by addon authors many times already :roll:

Regards
Rick

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 27 Aug 2006, 16:46

Actually, most of those features don't really exist in FS9. They only exist via "tricks" being used (mainly gauges that operate in parallel with FS) these are native features, which means that from this, one is able to do more.

As for FSDS I'm talking about the animation features. As of now, according to you actually, FSDS doesn't support wing flex. Since the last communication from the FSDS author was that he wasn't doing another version, I'd say it's dead. With GMAX/3DS or whatever they include with FSX, I'm pretty sure Discreet will support whatever MS pays them to support, so you'll have a semi-current program for the life of FSX.

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 27 Aug 2006, 16:46

There is of course (AFAIK) one fly in the air traffic control oinment, that of course being France. Unless they've come to their senses recently, a French controller will address a pilot of a French airliner in French :roll:

Whether or not it would be appropriate or worthwhile to ever model this in FS (for the sake of realism) I dont know. What I do know is that in the accident report on the collision of G-AWZT and YU-AJR, the 30th anniversary of which is fast approaching, the fact that the controller momentarily reverted to Serbo-Croat to warn the Inex Air Adria Captain was criticised, as it denied the BA crew of information that could have helped prevent a collision.

What of course perhaps isnt obvious to Chris (or most Americans), is just how odd hearing an American accent in European tower is. Even the phraseology used is US-specific and wouldnt be used over here. I'm not even sure if the voices are recorded or synthesised :think:

At the moment I think there are something like 4 or 5 different American voices including a female one. I would sooner several different accents, American, British, French, German, Spanish/Hispanic, Chinese, Russian, Indian.

Whilst not entirely perfect, it wouldnt be unreasonable to use the French one for other French speaking countries (e.g. Belgium, parts of Canada and Switzerland, parts of Africa), the Spanish accent for Latin America, the Russian for Slavic countries, Chinese for oriental countries as a way of minimising the number of voices needed until such time as Flight Simulator arrives on a disc encompassing 10s of GB.

Sorry for the long post

Post by **Rick Piper** » 27 Aug 2006, 16:53

Removed as what is the point :roll: