Classic British Flight Sim

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/stor ... ss&feed=11

Now this particular contest could be interesting!! :think:

AndyG

Doubtful. A380's on its last legs, A350's stillborn, unless Airbus pulls a 350,000 pound rabbit out of its hat, it's not likely to get much of anything from BA.

Hell, they're about to loose all the A380 Freighter orders because they just sent notification to FedEx and UPS that they won't be getting their first aircraft until 2012 (that's a nearly 4 year delay from the original delivery date).

They'll continue to sell A32x series and a few A330/A340 aircraft, but the mismanagement that's been going on for 20 years is finally catching up to them, just as it did to Boeing about 25 years ago and it did to Douglas and Lockheed a few years before that. Difference is, Boeing's been the only one to survive the fallout so far.

Which is exactly why I think this will be interesting Chris. Both companies have made some serious errors, frankly there is little to chose between them. I'm not sure I agree with your comment about the A-380 being on it's last legs; yes, it the project is stumbling somewhat at the moment, it's what happens when you do things by committee - is it just me, or is the wiring issue (Germans not talking properly to French, British etc) not a little reminiscent of the software cockup in the early days of Eurofighter?

I find it a little curious that Boeing feel the need to release the 747-8, after all their comments about Dreamliner being the way forward; maybe Airbus didn't get it so wrong after all?

Anyway, this is the first real head-to-head contest between them since A-380 went wrong and Boeing screwed up the US Tanker contract, so I reckon all bets are off!!

AndyG

OK I think we should be careful here, already after 2 posts it's starting to sound like an A.net forum topic and these sort ALWAYS get out of hand VERY quickly! :roll:

Weighing up the options, I think Airbus have as much chance as Boeing depending on when BA want the aircraft. The A380 is apparently prooving to be a great aircraft with industrial ramp-up issues stopping the show. Ok the A350XWB is in limbo right now and personally I can't see it being launched anytime soon giving the shape Airbus is in at the moment.

I can't honestly say I know much about the freighter orders but I also can't see many cancellations because they carriers wouldn't have ordered the jets if they had not wanted them.

I have to agree with you though on 1 thing Chris, I do think most of this is due to the p**s-poor management or Airbus for the last 20 years!

Just my 2 pence worth.

Cheers,

The 747-8 has been in the cards since before the 787 was the Sonic Cruiser. They've been talking for years about making available an advanced 747-400 that uses newer engines (since the current engines are 30 year old designs), a new 777-style interior, and a further refined wing since the current one is really not very different from the original, just a bit longer and with winglets. They have not increased capacity much over the 747-400, only range and cargo payload (via airframe strenghtening, not and major increase in volume). As such, they haven't changed course at all, although the media would love for you to believe it (as most of them see Boeing as the big-bad wolf of the world much like M$, oddly though they see EADS and Airbus as the "great savior" which frankly is a bit odd since they're no different than Boeing in terms of size and much more hostile to competition).

Anyways, the discussion only looks like AvB because there's only two players in the fight in the first place. Kinda hard to keep it anything but AvB other than to point it out on the merits and what's going on in the companies right now.

Also, I see the A380 as on its last legs meaning as a commercial success. Not only do they have wiring issues, but they've got serious weight issues, and they still haven't resolved the wing strength issue to the satisfaction of the FAA and EAA. Until they get those three things fixed (actually, if they get them fixed) the aircraft is on a very unstable footing. They've already had quite a few aircraft cancelled, and as of yesterday, Emarites (the holder of the biggest order) announced that it is going to least several 777-300ERs until the A380 is delivered. If the schedules continue to slip, there is a good chance they'll cancel the A380 order and turn the leases into purchases or get 747-8s.

I would think at this stage BA would just be palying one off against the other to get the price down

Even if it was pretty sure what it wanted it would approach both so that when they made the order they intended all along the unit cost would be a lot lower.

They know what the products will do.........they are not asking Airbus or Boeing what they have, they know all about them.

In a way it's not really about aviation as such but all about financial deals and long term product support.

Garry

Spot on Garry!

2nd that one Garry, how many sweetners from Boeing or Airbus will be past around to entice BA into deciding? Can't wait till it gets near the signing phase of the negotiations :shock:

I myself am hoping that the A380 doesnt die. Im not a fanby of either company and I like aircraft from both sides but I still would like to see the A380 in service. If BA show interest in the project maybe that will give the guys at AB some motivation to get the plane sorted.

They might even get a few A340-500's. Is that still the longest range airliner going?

Clearly what EADS need to do is hire Chris Trott and all their troubles will be over. However, whatever the difficulties with the 380 , it is flying before either of the Boeing products has turned a wheel. It is also singularly unfortunate that Boeing have chosen to call their project " dreamliner" because so far, that is all it is. I doubt, frankly, that either company has the ability to make money out of these major projects - it is the bread and butter aircraft such as the A 320 and 737 which have kept the industry afloat in the last 30 years