Yes FS does have it's limits...like the smoke issue
You can only go so far than hit the brick wall of how FS operates
:sad:
Sounds like this is one.
I have never been any good as FS Helicopters. The Wessex is a great improvement in that I can take off and fly.
I still can't stop and land...........but that is down to my being no good.
Garry
In the pipeline
Moderators: Guru's, The Ministry
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Garry Russell
- The Ministry
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Chris Trott
- Vintage Pair
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I've never had any problems with hovering in FS as long as I follow the rules set forth in how to adjust the sim, nor backing up at a "steady" pace.
The "Steady Pace" is about walking speed. Much above that, even rudder pedals won't keep you from flipping around. Below that, you're fine. I can reposition the aircraft fairly easily in all directions.
The issue is that FS at 100% is too sensitive. Unless you have a full-sized collective and cyclic, you can't move the controls with small enough imputs to be able to control the helicopter. There are several people with full controls (whether professionally made or homemade) and they report that at 100%, the helicopters are very realistic in handling except for flying backwards.
FSX thankfully fixes many of the issues with Helicopters, so I've started flying helos in FSX more than in FS9.
The "Steady Pace" is about walking speed. Much above that, even rudder pedals won't keep you from flipping around. Below that, you're fine. I can reposition the aircraft fairly easily in all directions.
The issue is that FS at 100% is too sensitive. Unless you have a full-sized collective and cyclic, you can't move the controls with small enough imputs to be able to control the helicopter. There are several people with full controls (whether professionally made or homemade) and they report that at 100%, the helicopters are very realistic in handling except for flying backwards.
FSX thankfully fixes many of the issues with Helicopters, so I've started flying helos in FSX more than in FS9.
Just for interest there is a interesting thread developing about the argonaut on pprune http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265298
Pete.
Pete.
If United were playing in my garden,I would close the curtains.
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Garry Russell
- The Ministry
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- Joined: 29 Jan 2005, 00:53
- Location: On the other side of the wall
Since the Canadair Four has become topical here is a list I prepared the other day of known routes operated by the Canadair C4/DC 4M2 with UK alirlines..There are many other that I can't actually tie down.
Fleet is given for each airline, but that is the active fleet and does not include aircraft bopught only for spares.
Derby for instance bought five but only put three into service.
BOAC
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Basra-Karachi-Calcutta-Rangoon-Bangkok-Hong-Kong
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Basra-Karachi-Calcutta-Rangoon-Bangkok-Hong-Kong-Tokyo
Singapore-Hong Kong-Singapore (local return twice weekly)
LHR-Rome-Cairo
LHR-Rome-Damascus-Abadan
LHR-Kuwait
LHR-Rome-Damacus-Kuwait-Bahrein
LHR-Rome-Lydda
LHR-Rome-Damascus-Baghdad
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Bahrein-Bombay-Colombo-Singapore
LHR-Malta-Cairo-Bahrein-Karachi-Delhi-Calcutta
LHR-Lisbon-Dakar-Recife-Rio-Montevideo-Buenos Aires-Santiago-Buenos
Aires-Montevideo-Rio-Recife-Dakar-Lisbon-Madrid-LHR (note Madrid on the return only??)
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Khartoum-Entebbe-Livingston-Johannesbourg.
LHR-Rome-Tripoli-Kano-Accra
Actual trips with (flight time)......those link are a direct
continuation. Seperate line indicate a break, or change of aircraft.
They are crew dutys rather than complete aircraft routes. Some of the
linked ones show complete services of one aircraft.....transatlantic for example.
Khartoum-Cairo (4:35)
Cairo-Rome (6:35)-LHR (4:40)
LHR-Rome (4:05)-Cairo (5:40)
Cairo-Khartoum (4:40)-Entebbe (4:55)
Entebbe-Livingstone (5:45)-Johannesbourg (2:55)-Livingstone
(2:45)-Entebbe (5:50)
Entebbe-Khartoum (4:50)
Tripoli-Kano (6:25)
Kano-Accra (3:25)-Kano(4:05)
Kano-Tripoli (6:45)-Rome (3:55)
Rome-LHR (4:50)
LHR-Amsterdam (1:31)- Algiers (4:53)-Accra (9:24)-Kano (3:25)-Algiers
(7:48)-Amterdam (5:07)-LHR (1:26) complete West African service
LHR-Keflavik(5:20)-Goose Bay (6:40)-Montreal (4:20)-Gander
(4:18)-Prestwick (9:02)-LHR (1:48)
LHR-Pori,Finland (4:30)-LHR (5:21) charter
LHR-Keflavik (5:00)-Goose Bay (8:30)- New York (6:15)
New York-LHR-(10:30)
LHR-Keflavik (5:30)-Gander (9:15)-New York (6:50
New York-LHR (10:45)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Altitudes and flight times examples
A log from a Senior captain showing the sectors involved in a London-Tokyo-London duty tour
February 8-27 1950
Five aircraft flown
G-ALHF,T,U,X,X
London Rome 19,500 3:38
Rome-Cairo 21,500 6:00
Cairo-Bahrain 15,500 4:37
Bahrein-Karachi 15,500 4:13
Karachi-Calcutta 15,500 4:55
Calcutta-Rangoon 15,500 2:37
Rangoon-Bangkok 11,000 1:45
Bangkok-Hong Kong 15,000 5:00
Hong Kong-Tokyo 17,000 7:20
Tokyo-Okinawa 10,000 5:15
Okinawa-Hong Kong 8,000 5:17
Hong Kong-Singapore 16,000 6:29
Singapore-Hong Kong 15,000 7:30
Hong Kong-Bangok 14,000 5:00
Bankok-Rangoon 10,500 1:59
Rangoon-Calcutta 14,000 3:15
Calcutta-Karachi 10,500 6:11
Karachi-Basra 14,500 6:04
Basra-Cairo 14,000 5:23
Cairo-Rome 20,500 6:20
Rome-London 20,500 4:19
Fleet names included as literature often referrers to the name rather than the reg and to aid curiosity:
G-ALHC Ariadne
G-ALHD Ajax
G-ALHE Amazon....later Argo
G-ALHF Atlas
G-ALHG Aurora
G-ALHH Attica
G-ALHI Antares
G-ALHJ Arcturus
G-ALHK Atlanta (took HRH Princess Elizabeth to Africa and brought home Queen Elizabeth a few days later)
G-ALHL Altair
G-ALHM Antaeus
G-ALHN Argosy
G-ALHO Althea
G-ALHP Aethra
G-ALHR Antiope
G-ALHS Astra
G-ALHT Athena
G-ALHU Artemis
G-ALHV Adonis
G-ALHW Aeolus
G-ALHX Astrea
G-ALHY Arion
Overseas Aviation
Schedule service
Prestwick-Manchester-Gatwick...dropped after 12 services carried about 100 passengers in total CF-TFM was used throughout.
IT Charters
Belfast-Glasgow-Palma
Manchester-Perpignan
Manchester-Palma
Manchester-Malaga
Manchester-Naple
Manchester-Nice
Manchester-Rimini
Manchester-Tangier
Manchester-Turin
Gatwick-Basle
Gatwick-Copenhagan
Gatwick-Gothenburg
Gatwick-Lisbon
Gatwick-Luxembourg
Gatwick-Nice
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Palma
Gatwick-Perpignan
Gatwick-Rome
Gatwick-Tangier
Gatwick-Vienna
Gatwick-Zagreb
Belfast-Prestwick-Barcelona
Belfast-Prestwick-Perpignan
Belfast-Prestwick-Rimini
Belfast-Prestwick-Valencia
Birmingham-Naples
Birmingham-Nice
Birmingham-Palma
Birmingham-Rimini
Birmigham-Valencia
Ad hoc charters
Gatwick-Amsterdam
Gatwick-Athens
Gatwick-Beirut
Gatwick-Brussels
Gatwick-Cardiff
Gatwick-Malta
Gatwick-Stockholm
Gatwick-Tel Aviv
Gatwick- (Turkey??)
Fleet:
Canadair Four
G-ALHD, G-ALHG, G-ALHK, G-ALHN, G-ALHP, G-ALHS, G-ALHT, G-ALHU,
G-ALHY,OY-AAH
Canadair DC4M-2
CF-TFE, CF-TFJ, CF-TFK, CF-TFL, CF-TFL, CF-TFO, CF-TFQ, CF-TFT,
CF-TFU, CF-TFV
BEA Christmas 1962 G-ALHG of Derby with (flight times)
Hanover-Berlin (1:10)
Berlin-Munich (2:15)
Munich-Berlin (2:30)
Berlin-Hanover (1:05)
Hanover-Berlin (1:00)
Berlin-Munich (2:10)
Munich-Birmingham (3:15)
Derby Airways/British Midland
Inclusive Tours
Cardiff-Barcelona
Cardiff-Majorca
Cardiff-Bristol-Palma
Cardiff-Bristol-Barcelona
Cardiff-Bristol-Valencia
Cardiff-Bristol-Rimini
Cardiff-Bristol-Alicante
Cardiff-Bristol-Tarbes
Cardiff-Bristol-Ostend
Cardiff-Bristol-Perpignan
Manchester-Genoa
Manchester-Ostend
Manchester-Klagenfurt
Manchester-Perpignan
Manchester-Palma
Birmingham-Barcelona
Birmingham-Ostend
Birmingham-Palma
Birmingham-Perpignan
Birmingham-Tarbes
Birmingham-Venice
Sheduled services
East-Midlands-Dublin
East-Midlands-Belfast
East-Midlands-Leeds/Bradford
East-Midlands-Glasgow
East-Midlands-Jersey
East-Midlands-Guernsey
East-Midlands-Ostend
Manchester-Ostend
Birmingham-Jersey
Luton-Jersey
Actual trips with (flight times)
Manchester-Dublin (1:15)-Tarbes (4:00)-Dublin (3:35)
Cardiff-Bristol (0:20)-Barcelona (3:30)-Bristol (4:05)-Cardiff (0:20)
Cardiff-Ostend (1:25)-Cardiff (1:35)
Cardiff-Ostend (1:20)-Bristol (1:35)-Cardiff (0:20)
Manchester-Perpignan-(3:45)-Manchester (4:15)
Manchester-Bodo (6:10)-Exeter (7:20)
LHR-Birmingham (0:40)
Birmingham-Tarbes(3:00)-Birmingham (3:45)
Birmingham-Hanover (2:25)-Birmingham (2:40
Birmingham-Hanover (2:30)-Birmingham (3:10
Fleet
G-ALHG, G-ALHS, G-ALHY
Air Links
Some ad hocs at the beginning
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Cherbourg
Gatwick-Milan
Gatwick-Rotterdam
Gatwick-Algiers
Regular
Gatwick-Barcelona
Gatwick-Basle
Gatwick-Beauvais
Gatwick-Brussels
Gatwick-Dublin Freight (G-ALHW)
Gatwick-Zurich freight (G-ALHW)
Gatwick-Paris LBG
Gatwick-Jersey
Gatwick-Guernsey
Gatwick-Lyon
Gatwick-Marseille
Gatwick-Nice
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Palma
Gatwick-Perpignan
Gatwick-Rimini
Gatwick-Tarbes
Gatwick-Tunis
Gatwick-Valencia
Gatwick-Venice
Gatwick-Zurich
Gatwick-Gibralta (for MoD)
Gatwick-Hanover (for MoD)
Gatwick-Dusseldorf (for MoD)
Gatwick-Franfurt (for MoD)
Gatwick-Rotterdam
Gatwick-Metz (France)...weekly freight only (G-ALHW)
Manchester-Gutersloh (for MoD)
Manchester-Tarbes
Dussedorf-Benbecula (for MoD)....sometimes via Prestwick to clear customs
Exeter-Barcelona
Glasgow-Tarbes
Leeds/Bradford-Tarbes
Prestwick-Tarbes
Teeside-Tarbes
Fleet
G-ALHI, G-ALHM, G-ALHT, G-ALHW (freighter)
Britsh United Air Ferries
Southend-Ostend in lieu of all pax Carvairs and Bristol Superfreighters. Air Links aircraft (G-ALHT)
Garry
Fleet is given for each airline, but that is the active fleet and does not include aircraft bopught only for spares.
Derby for instance bought five but only put three into service.
BOAC
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Basra-Karachi-Calcutta-Rangoon-Bangkok-Hong-Kong
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Basra-Karachi-Calcutta-Rangoon-Bangkok-Hong-Kong-Tokyo
Singapore-Hong Kong-Singapore (local return twice weekly)
LHR-Rome-Cairo
LHR-Rome-Damascus-Abadan
LHR-Kuwait
LHR-Rome-Damacus-Kuwait-Bahrein
LHR-Rome-Lydda
LHR-Rome-Damascus-Baghdad
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Bahrein-Bombay-Colombo-Singapore
LHR-Malta-Cairo-Bahrein-Karachi-Delhi-Calcutta
LHR-Lisbon-Dakar-Recife-Rio-Montevideo-Buenos Aires-Santiago-Buenos
Aires-Montevideo-Rio-Recife-Dakar-Lisbon-Madrid-LHR (note Madrid on the return only??)
LHR-Rome-Cairo-Khartoum-Entebbe-Livingston-Johannesbourg.
LHR-Rome-Tripoli-Kano-Accra
Actual trips with (flight time)......those link are a direct
continuation. Seperate line indicate a break, or change of aircraft.
They are crew dutys rather than complete aircraft routes. Some of the
linked ones show complete services of one aircraft.....transatlantic for example.
Khartoum-Cairo (4:35)
Cairo-Rome (6:35)-LHR (4:40)
LHR-Rome (4:05)-Cairo (5:40)
Cairo-Khartoum (4:40)-Entebbe (4:55)
Entebbe-Livingstone (5:45)-Johannesbourg (2:55)-Livingstone
(2:45)-Entebbe (5:50)
Entebbe-Khartoum (4:50)
Tripoli-Kano (6:25)
Kano-Accra (3:25)-Kano(4:05)
Kano-Tripoli (6:45)-Rome (3:55)
Rome-LHR (4:50)
LHR-Amsterdam (1:31)- Algiers (4:53)-Accra (9:24)-Kano (3:25)-Algiers
(7:48)-Amterdam (5:07)-LHR (1:26) complete West African service
LHR-Keflavik(5:20)-Goose Bay (6:40)-Montreal (4:20)-Gander
(4:18)-Prestwick (9:02)-LHR (1:48)
LHR-Pori,Finland (4:30)-LHR (5:21) charter
LHR-Keflavik (5:00)-Goose Bay (8:30)- New York (6:15)
New York-LHR-(10:30)
LHR-Keflavik (5:30)-Gander (9:15)-New York (6:50
New York-LHR (10:45)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Altitudes and flight times examples
A log from a Senior captain showing the sectors involved in a London-Tokyo-London duty tour
February 8-27 1950
Five aircraft flown
G-ALHF,T,U,X,X
London Rome 19,500 3:38
Rome-Cairo 21,500 6:00
Cairo-Bahrain 15,500 4:37
Bahrein-Karachi 15,500 4:13
Karachi-Calcutta 15,500 4:55
Calcutta-Rangoon 15,500 2:37
Rangoon-Bangkok 11,000 1:45
Bangkok-Hong Kong 15,000 5:00
Hong Kong-Tokyo 17,000 7:20
Tokyo-Okinawa 10,000 5:15
Okinawa-Hong Kong 8,000 5:17
Hong Kong-Singapore 16,000 6:29
Singapore-Hong Kong 15,000 7:30
Hong Kong-Bangok 14,000 5:00
Bankok-Rangoon 10,500 1:59
Rangoon-Calcutta 14,000 3:15
Calcutta-Karachi 10,500 6:11
Karachi-Basra 14,500 6:04
Basra-Cairo 14,000 5:23
Cairo-Rome 20,500 6:20
Rome-London 20,500 4:19
Fleet names included as literature often referrers to the name rather than the reg and to aid curiosity:
G-ALHC Ariadne
G-ALHD Ajax
G-ALHE Amazon....later Argo
G-ALHF Atlas
G-ALHG Aurora
G-ALHH Attica
G-ALHI Antares
G-ALHJ Arcturus
G-ALHK Atlanta (took HRH Princess Elizabeth to Africa and brought home Queen Elizabeth a few days later)
G-ALHL Altair
G-ALHM Antaeus
G-ALHN Argosy
G-ALHO Althea
G-ALHP Aethra
G-ALHR Antiope
G-ALHS Astra
G-ALHT Athena
G-ALHU Artemis
G-ALHV Adonis
G-ALHW Aeolus
G-ALHX Astrea
G-ALHY Arion
Overseas Aviation
Schedule service
Prestwick-Manchester-Gatwick...dropped after 12 services carried about 100 passengers in total CF-TFM was used throughout.
IT Charters
Belfast-Glasgow-Palma
Manchester-Perpignan
Manchester-Palma
Manchester-Malaga
Manchester-Naple
Manchester-Nice
Manchester-Rimini
Manchester-Tangier
Manchester-Turin
Gatwick-Basle
Gatwick-Copenhagan
Gatwick-Gothenburg
Gatwick-Lisbon
Gatwick-Luxembourg
Gatwick-Nice
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Palma
Gatwick-Perpignan
Gatwick-Rome
Gatwick-Tangier
Gatwick-Vienna
Gatwick-Zagreb
Belfast-Prestwick-Barcelona
Belfast-Prestwick-Perpignan
Belfast-Prestwick-Rimini
Belfast-Prestwick-Valencia
Birmingham-Naples
Birmingham-Nice
Birmingham-Palma
Birmingham-Rimini
Birmigham-Valencia
Ad hoc charters
Gatwick-Amsterdam
Gatwick-Athens
Gatwick-Beirut
Gatwick-Brussels
Gatwick-Cardiff
Gatwick-Malta
Gatwick-Stockholm
Gatwick-Tel Aviv
Gatwick- (Turkey??)
Fleet:
Canadair Four
G-ALHD, G-ALHG, G-ALHK, G-ALHN, G-ALHP, G-ALHS, G-ALHT, G-ALHU,
G-ALHY,OY-AAH
Canadair DC4M-2
CF-TFE, CF-TFJ, CF-TFK, CF-TFL, CF-TFL, CF-TFO, CF-TFQ, CF-TFT,
CF-TFU, CF-TFV
BEA Christmas 1962 G-ALHG of Derby with (flight times)
Hanover-Berlin (1:10)
Berlin-Munich (2:15)
Munich-Berlin (2:30)
Berlin-Hanover (1:05)
Hanover-Berlin (1:00)
Berlin-Munich (2:10)
Munich-Birmingham (3:15)
Derby Airways/British Midland
Inclusive Tours
Cardiff-Barcelona
Cardiff-Majorca
Cardiff-Bristol-Palma
Cardiff-Bristol-Barcelona
Cardiff-Bristol-Valencia
Cardiff-Bristol-Rimini
Cardiff-Bristol-Alicante
Cardiff-Bristol-Tarbes
Cardiff-Bristol-Ostend
Cardiff-Bristol-Perpignan
Manchester-Genoa
Manchester-Ostend
Manchester-Klagenfurt
Manchester-Perpignan
Manchester-Palma
Birmingham-Barcelona
Birmingham-Ostend
Birmingham-Palma
Birmingham-Perpignan
Birmingham-Tarbes
Birmingham-Venice
Sheduled services
East-Midlands-Dublin
East-Midlands-Belfast
East-Midlands-Leeds/Bradford
East-Midlands-Glasgow
East-Midlands-Jersey
East-Midlands-Guernsey
East-Midlands-Ostend
Manchester-Ostend
Birmingham-Jersey
Luton-Jersey
Actual trips with (flight times)
Manchester-Dublin (1:15)-Tarbes (4:00)-Dublin (3:35)
Cardiff-Bristol (0:20)-Barcelona (3:30)-Bristol (4:05)-Cardiff (0:20)
Cardiff-Ostend (1:25)-Cardiff (1:35)
Cardiff-Ostend (1:20)-Bristol (1:35)-Cardiff (0:20)
Manchester-Perpignan-(3:45)-Manchester (4:15)
Manchester-Bodo (6:10)-Exeter (7:20)
LHR-Birmingham (0:40)
Birmingham-Tarbes(3:00)-Birmingham (3:45)
Birmingham-Hanover (2:25)-Birmingham (2:40
Birmingham-Hanover (2:30)-Birmingham (3:10
Fleet
G-ALHG, G-ALHS, G-ALHY
Air Links
Some ad hocs at the beginning
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Cherbourg
Gatwick-Milan
Gatwick-Rotterdam
Gatwick-Algiers
Regular
Gatwick-Barcelona
Gatwick-Basle
Gatwick-Beauvais
Gatwick-Brussels
Gatwick-Dublin Freight (G-ALHW)
Gatwick-Zurich freight (G-ALHW)
Gatwick-Paris LBG
Gatwick-Jersey
Gatwick-Guernsey
Gatwick-Lyon
Gatwick-Marseille
Gatwick-Nice
Gatwick-Ostend
Gatwick-Palma
Gatwick-Perpignan
Gatwick-Rimini
Gatwick-Tarbes
Gatwick-Tunis
Gatwick-Valencia
Gatwick-Venice
Gatwick-Zurich
Gatwick-Gibralta (for MoD)
Gatwick-Hanover (for MoD)
Gatwick-Dusseldorf (for MoD)
Gatwick-Franfurt (for MoD)
Gatwick-Rotterdam
Gatwick-Metz (France)...weekly freight only (G-ALHW)
Manchester-Gutersloh (for MoD)
Manchester-Tarbes
Dussedorf-Benbecula (for MoD)....sometimes via Prestwick to clear customs
Exeter-Barcelona
Glasgow-Tarbes
Leeds/Bradford-Tarbes
Prestwick-Tarbes
Teeside-Tarbes
Fleet
G-ALHI, G-ALHM, G-ALHT, G-ALHW (freighter)
Britsh United Air Ferries
Southend-Ostend in lieu of all pax Carvairs and Bristol Superfreighters. Air Links aircraft (G-ALHT)
Garry
Garry
"In the world of virtual reality things are not always what they seem."
"In the world of virtual reality things are not always what they seem."