One Eleven fuel

petermcleland · Post by **petermcleland** » 28 Apr 2007, 18:09

I'm here Dave but it is a very long time since I flew the Super111 and as far as I remember there was absolutely nothing to do to make the fuel feed...The whole thing was entirely automatic. I was only the first officer on the S111 but we shared leg and leg about and so if there was anything to do on the fuel feeding side I would have had to do it at least half the time and I can recall nothing about it :think:

Doesn't anyone have a copy of the original manual or anything?

Post by **Garry Russell** » 28 Apr 2007, 18:20

Would the BEA/BA Supers be different in that respect like automation given that the aircraft was not standard.

I don't mean different in tanks ....just were they different in the way they were controlled? :think:

Garry

petermcleland · Post by **petermcleland** » 28 Apr 2007, 18:30

Garry,

I think it likely that they were different in many ways...One thing that BALPA fought for was reducing the workload before they would accept only two pilots...This included a lot of automation and of course HARCO which linked the whole navigation by Decca chain straight into the autopilot. All this was accepted by BALPA and that was as the aircraft was when I flew it...However, BA took a lot of things out after I moved off the aircraft...Including Autoland and HARCO :shock:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 28 Apr 2007, 18:35

Peter

Thanks for that..the last bit I take it accounts for the large blank area on the panel?

Garry

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 28 Apr 2007, 18:38

DM

You may be on to something - lets face it DA had a reputation for shoe horning as much as they could into the smallest space (much like Channel)
the 300/400s carried 89 punters and the bucket and spade brigade were not known for packing light - And Im aware of the differences between Boeing and BAC - The best person to ask I think would be Dick Spurrell the Chief 1-11 Pilot for Dan Air in my day. He posts on the Dan Air Old Boys site occassionally

Leif

petermcleland · Post by **petermcleland** » 28 Apr 2007, 19:24

Garry Russell wrote:Thanks for that..the last bit I take it accounts for the large blank area on the panel?

Yes Garry

Post by **MALTBY D** » 28 Apr 2007, 21:46

To tie it all up, here's a nice fuel system diagram from BAC.

As you can see, the centre tank is not connected to the engines and can only pump fuel into the wings (with 2 transfer pumps).
There was also a 'transfer valve' for each side to close off transfer to either wing (not shown on the diagram).
'VENT' is a basic overflow pipe. The centre tank vents into the right wing overflow tank. Both overflow tanks drain back into the wing tanks, helped by air pressure from ram air intakes.

There's nothing much to operating it - Booster pumps ON, LP valves ON & away you go.

For take off & landing all 4 booster pumps were ON, but the centre tank transfer pumps were OFF and the transfer valves CLOSED - effectively isolating the centre tank.
For the rest of the flight, centre tank fuel transfer was ON (if there was any fuel to transfer) & I think they turned OFF one booster pump each side.

There was no fancy pumping from side to side, or from wing to centre.

This shows how it matches up with the fuel panel.

The BEA 510ED fuel system was the same.

DM

Post by **DaveB** » 28 Apr 2007, 22:16

Hi DM..

I'm starting to lose the plot a little as the debate went from flying with the centre tank full to turning off transfer pumps on takeoff and landing and the possible reasons for this

All jolly interesting stuff regardless

Turning the transfer pumps off on takeoff and landing on the 1-11 and perhaps the reasons for it have got me thinking to aircraft like the Vanguard that have no centre tank (4 x tanks.. 2 in each wing). I'm reasonably sure (dangerous!) that you draw off each engines tank during takeoff and landing on this aircraft too.. amongst others that I'm trying to think of

Trouble with many Flight Manuals is that they don't give a reason for the action.. only that an action must (or must not) be carried out :think: Let's see what this kicks up

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **MALTBY D** » 28 Apr 2007, 22:26

I'm starting to lose the plot a little as the debate went from flying with the centre tank full to turning off transfer pumps on takeoff and landing

What better way to spend a Saturday night than going over the fuel system on a 1-11?
I remember when all I use to do was go out clubbing.

DM

Post by **Garry Russell** » 28 Apr 2007, 22:30

Maybe you'll soon be qualified to become a member of the old gits club..

All the clubbing I get now..........unless the ex gets hold of me :axe: :madhead:

Garry