E3-D Sentry uploaded

[DanKH]

There's absolutely no hassles from my side Tony, I just try it in FSX, and if it works - fine, if not - too bad.. ;-)

I'll just wait then, or if I can solve it myself, I will

I have not tried to force you or anyone else into changing anything at all, just wanted to see if it was possible, and when I found out that quick and dirty way of converting textures, I mentioned it.

It later proved that there is a technique that makes textures show equally correct in FS9 and FSX, so when using that from the beginning, there will be no problems.
(The "Backwards compatibility" mentioned from MS, is probably meant to be:
If all rules set up for eg. repainting, ai-scheduling, airport tampering etc. etc. etc has been followed then it would be backwards compatible.

MS can't be blamed not to be backwards compatible with something that do not follow their way of doing it by the letter.
As almost anything can be done in several ways and still give the same result (or looks like it), MS can not ensure forward and/or backward compatibility unless rules are strictly followed.

There is no problem in converting FS2004 default aircraft to FSX....they have been made using MS own rules, not amazingly detailed or extremely excellent I give you that, but they are easyly converted. HJG's 707 and DM's VC10 for instance are completely a nother ball game, but it does not take much to convert them to FSX either. At least all of the things that has been done "by the book" then of caoure there will be several "specialities" there will be diffult to cinvert, but mind you NOT impossible.

I realize that this might sound like a rant, rest assure, it isn't, not at all.

When I get started I just can't stop, and I do have the small problem of doing translation as I write a long so bear with me ....

You (Tony) and the others from HJG has made a great job. You have tested in FS9, and only committed your-self to support FS9, there is nothing wrong here at all. All us busy-body's trying things out in FSX can't expect you to clean up everything we find. We must do somethings our self if we want to use the "finer arts". At least for a while still

FSX does, when it loads up after a new aircraft has been installed, a scan of any newly added files. When it find an FS9 or even older version of eg. a GAU, it prompts you to either accept this gau or not, it even prompts you for a one session only trust or not. If this prompt comes up, you can be sure that this MIGHT work in FSX but not for certainty (hence the warning), so whether it is this gau or something completely different that is causing CTD I cannot say.

If at anytime there should be made a 707-late.gau compiled with tools from the FSX-SDK, that possibility would be removed. But it is at your own discretion if you want to use it or not.

Well I better stop now so someone can have a go at me :-)

OK, shoot... :gigle:

[Garry Russell]

One thing Dan

Backward compatability would only be for NON MS stuff as the new sim already contains the MS upgrades.

So if it exists it should be so for all add ons made for FS.9 using FS.9 rules which must have been the case for them to have worked in FS.9

Backwards compatable means if it works in 9 it works in X and this is not the case.

The FS 9 aircraft that are being put into X do not go across properly.....there are still issues.

Maybe not enough to worry about but the issues are still there with effects and other things.

I'm not knocking FS.X but speaking aginst the belief the FS.9 stuff can be used in FS.X properly.

Why not take the line with early FS.2002 addons where it was said it will run in FS.9 but there will be issues..... with in that case it was the undercarriage and guages and animations

Why the difference?.............it the same new sim incompatability why try to pretend otherwise?

Infact there seems to be more difference than there was in FS.8/9 issues but a pretence that all should be well.

Garry

[tonymadge]

Dan.. I am not having a"knock" or a "go" at you honest FSX I am affraid in my book is the biggest pain in the ass, I won't get drawn into why its rubbish and the less than truthful statements that are made about its compatability, trust me a lot of designers have headaches on that one!
I just made an error in thinking this would work fautlessly in FSX. in future I will as said stick to FS9 and if it works in FSX then great if not I will leave it to the guys like yourself to tweak it until it does. I am in the middle of a weird shift pattern at the moment where I am spending most of my time curing technical IT issues with work equipment and resolving or attempting to resolve role equipment issues in the new aircraft, that plus a huge upload at HJG then on top of that finding I have mislaid a stack of HJG files..well not really mislaid just stupidly deleted them from the server... don't ask where my brain was when I did that!!! I am struggling to fit the time in the day but bear with me working on solutions to it all...just need to find a comfy railway line to rest my head on ;-)
nb: please ignore all spelling mistakes....

[DanKH]

...just need to find a comfy railway line to rest my head on....

Oh no you don't ;-)

You just hang in there, do your things, and THEN you "owe" me a paint of an particular 707-338C if you do that I'll fly it arse out in FSX

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0875926/L/ remember? ;-)

I've left you a message at you own doorstep as well :-)

Keep up the spirit.

[ravilamir]

Tony
You and Mark need a rest.
After that bumper uploads at HGJ anyone could have done a mistake or two. BTW for the folks who download the new 707 panels, there was an error on the b707-323c 1970 panel for AA. It has been corrected and I am told that you have already upload it.

Dan
You can write wax lyrical about fsx but as Tony said there's more than just incompatibility issues with it. It is a victim of the success of FS2004 in the same way as FS2000 was in relation to FS98. I still consider FS98 as the best Flight Sim ever made, considering the time and technological differences when it was launched. The fact was that FS2000 was ridden with problems in very much the same fashion as fsx. Who uses FS2000 these days? Probably half a dozen people or so. Who uses FS98? A lot more people! In fact, planes and scenery are still being built for it. Some freeware developers have stopped working in new material due to M$ stance with fsx, remember Mike Stone? I have nothing against new versions of FS, I just wished they were better built than the version they replaced. As it didn't happen this time with fsx, I can only wait for a FSXI. As David Maltby said recently, there's still plenty of life in FS9 to last until FSXI is released. If you want to convert FS9 planes for fsx, be my guest! In fact, could I ask you to do the TU-154? ;-)

Best regards

[DanKH]

When I write 'you' in the next piece of text I mean 'you' in the general term, I'm not pointing at anybody, just airing my personal opinion.

Regarding compatibility:

I would say that Microsoft, seen in the wonders of back-sight, should have been a whee bit more careful when they mentioned compatibility.

When you're trying to improve a product, you must every once in a while make a disposition to go either this or that way.

When working to improve something you might discover that to enable the use of new techniques, you have to get rid of some old. Sometimes it isn't even possible to tweak some of the old code to secure absolutely compatibility. I think that this is a fact not very difficult to grasp for anyone. But the fact that Microsoft has stated that FS9-'things' would function in FSX could maybe have been rephrased a bit.

I haven't personally seen anywhere that Microsoft has promised full compatibility, but if they have I think they have failed. I still regard FSX as a great step in the right direction though.

Like when they "invented" .NET: Many of the old programming techniques became obsolete. The new .NET technology is so much better than the old COM, and there is no way to secure backward compatibility (in general, please don't go into technicalities here, as this is not the point of the statement). Sometime incompatibility is the price to pay if you want improvements.

If FSX is an improvement or not, isn't up to my to say. It must be for each individual to judge for him/her-self.

One thing I would like to see (remember I'm a great fan of both FS9 and FSX) though. I would really like to see the argument of if Microsoft promised something they couldn't keep or not.
Well what if they have? We all know that in a year or two there will be a new version of FS again, and it will continue that way it too will be more or less compatible with older version.

Isn't it a real pity that FS5 aircraft doesn't fit into FS9? ... Well maybe not?
I've seen quite a lot of 3rd party developers grown better and better while at the same time trying to secure their work more or less into the next version of the SIM.
But It wouldn't be true to say that each new version of FS haven't brought new tools, and new ways of creating the most wonderful add-ons.
Some of the things one had to struggle with, and make workarounds for in one version of FS, suddenly has become easy to achieve in the next.
Some of the functionality from and older sim, has been changed, either because the earlier one was erroneous, or a new and better way of doing it has been invented.... there are many reasons to change functionality.

One of them, I'm certain, is NOT because it will cause users annoyances....!

Of course it may be a shame to see your wonderful work act wrong or even not act at all in a newer version ... but that's it, don't moan about it. It is very foreseeable, and not that strange or unusual if you care to just think a little bit about it.

Stay on FS9 and use it and all those wonderful models/scenery available. Go for FSX if you want to be a part of the never-ending community. You might even come along a bit later, but if you keep staying at the same step on the stairway, you will never reach the next platform....

I will surely use FS9 for a long time, but I will ALSO use FSX, and in my case more FSX than FS9, and after that FS11, 12 etc. etc...
Try to go just two versions back to FS2002. I would be lying if I said there haven't been any improvement both on MS' side and in the community of developers. And hopefully this will continue. A part from that I still use the odd FS2002 model here and there ... yes ... in FSX.

But as with every other developing things in life there will also be back-falls, degradings if you like, but the general direction is up or forward.

Whether MS has stayed on a level, gone one step back or has indeed improved, I will let be up to each one of you all :-)

[ravilamir]

Well said Dan!

Best Regards!
Ricardo d'Avila e Miranda

[tonymadge]

Dan
got the message re the 707 trust me I will get this one done I hate to promise then fail to deliver ;-)

ok re FSX
I know where your coming from and yes you say sensible things about it. However you also state

I will surely use FS9 for a long time, but I will ALSO use FSX

Now that tells a story all of its own... you like a lot of folk are hanging on to FS9 which is not normal when one upgrades to a new version of FS, except for FS2000. Ummm FS2000 and FSX seem to have that in common!! So I think if you were really that happy with FSX you and others would have dropped FS9 by now, reason you don't is no doubt all your add-ons that wont work on FSX .... I rest my case your honor

[DanKH]

Sorry to disappoint you Tony, but as a matter of fact I use FS9 as some sort of data-bank.

Good find though !

I have a very nice Retro AI-setup as you may know in FS9. And instead of starting all over with that in FSX, I'm in the process of moving all that traffic from FS9 to FSX, while is not difficult, is quite a job, so as long as I haven't completed that task I wont go fully over to FSX.

There is only one special thing that prevents me from flying in FSX...

Al the add-on I have/had is more or less made for FSX. As a matter of fact the only add-ons I REALLY use is higher detailed meshes and surprisingly enough they seem to work fine in either FS9 or FSX

My AI-traffic is basically based on fs2000/2002 and 2004 models, but that is because there haven't been made any specific FSX-AI models, and the ones made for 2004 works incredible well.

[tonymadge]

well I think we can put the fs9 fsx debate to bed as it will rumble on, I do think though that whatever suits you is the best solution be it FS98/FS2002/2004 or FSX
Re the Somali 707 I have some good images to work from and will do this one in the same format I have done recently but I fear it may play your FSX up??? run past me the cure if you would please you can mail me or PM with it ;-)