VC10 take-off questions

[DaveB]

Cheers ;-) Isn't it odd how I can remember that but not what I did last week

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[cstorey]

Tonks - was the original reason for aileron upset being to reduce the outboard angle of attack at very high gross weights, thus ensuring that the inner part stalled first and gave warning ? and can you think of any other aircraft which used this?

Chris

[DanKH]

Cheers ;-) Isn't it odd how I can remember that but not what I did last week

I know exactly what you are talking about Dave! Especially if what I should remember is something involving any kind of physical movement... :roll:

[MALTBY D]

I thought you were all talking rubbish about the VC10 model having a takeoff config warning.
I was quite surprised to find it to be true. And it does indeed check flap 20, trim 2-7 & spoiler in.
What a great model!

I thought the aileron upset was only ever about reducing wing stress due to bending.
Perhaps in the olden days it was thought of as a way to go faster at lower altitudes instead of reducing stress? :think:
Changing stall could also be a reason for it, but then it was protected with stick shake & stick pusher anyhow.
I'm not sure if they also designed the inner sections to stall first anyway because of the T-tail. (or is it the other way around & I'm talking out of my
elbow :fart: )

The TriStar 500 apparently had aileron upset too.

DM

[Hot_Charlie]

Cheers ;-) Isn't it odd how I can remember that but not what I did last week

Perfectly acceptable Dave! This thread has just increased my tech overload! Nice to be reminded of the conditions that set off the TOCW though! I've just about got my head around the aileron upset!

[DaveB]

The thing to rest your expectation/overload on is that practise makes perfect and the older you get.. as more stuff goes in one ear, something gets pushed out the other end as there is only so much capacity. That's my excuse anyway

ATB

Dave :tab:

[Grace Quirrel]

This thread has just increased my tech overload! Nice to be reminded of the conditions that set off the TOCW though!

Oops, what have I started... Sorry boys.

[speedbird591]

The TOCW is checked during the pre Take off checks and should it sound during take off then it will be abandoned...

I can't imagine that a professional pilot would ever hear the TOCW in anger because it would mean that somebody hadn't done their pre take-off checks properly! I am absolutely certain that Tonks has only ever heard it during the checks

Not like us cowboys who are a bit more cavalier with our virtual checklists, eh?

I did once hear it for real on a 747 Classic on take-off from Chicago O'Hare. Just approaching V1 when the TOCW horn sounded and everything was hung out and stamped on for a serious change of plan. We taxied all the way back to the Threshold and the checks were done very very thoroughly (as you can imagine). Second attempt and exactly the same thing occurred with the added excitement of another aeroplane landing on a bisecting runway and the skipper had to decide whether to try and stop before reaching it or keep the speed up until he was past. ATC helped him out by instructing the landing aircraft to abort the landing.

We abandoned the flight after that and went down the pub instead, leaving it with the engineers. I don't know how he spotted this but the BA station engineer discovered that the worm gear that extends the flaps was a bit worn and when selecting flaps 20 they were actually at 21. Not enough to trigger the TOCW until we were bouncing along at 130 knots and a well-situated bump caused them to extend just that fraction more and set off the alarm. He just had to crank them up a bit and reset them and everything was tickety-boo.

Ian