Charlie,
Despite the fact that you are always welcome to join BAV, I think that the offer to join the VA here is s good one as they seem to be a good bunch of fellas and with little restriction, you could enjoy all that a VA has to offer.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy yourself.
Kind regards,
Lee
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Moderators: Guru's, The Ministry
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Lee James
Training Captain
747 Fleet
British Airways Virtual
Pilot of ...
SPEEDBIRD 9 DELTA VICTOR (BAW9DV)
Flying the Boeing 747-400....
Training Captain
747 Fleet
British Airways Virtual
Pilot of ...
SPEEDBIRD 9 DELTA VICTOR (BAW9DV)
Flying the Boeing 747-400....
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Ok Folks,
Need some more help here flying the Viscount 800 (British Airways red/blue variant) ....
So far, I have installed the aircraft from the downloads and all seems to be working ok. I use FS9. My problem is that I am unable to even start the engines manually! Despite reading and re-reading the manual and searching the checklists, there is no actual procedure to start the engines. the only way I can get them started is by using the "R" start option (Rapid start) on the added panel. This is of course unrealistic.
But thats not all. After starting the engines and flying a circuit, I found that the sounds are wonderful and the aircraft is fairly easy to control. I even managed to fly an ILS approach into 27L at Heathrow, despite finding the option to turn on the crosshairs quite by chance (manual does not show how to do it).
today, I tried to take her up to FL180 on a hop across to Aldergrove. The takeoff was ok and I climbed out and despite a good read of the manual, was unable to get any stability using the autopilot. I hand-flew her up to 12,000 feet and found that the aircraft wanted to pull to the left markedly. Upon engaging the autopilot, it promptly rolled the aircraft onto a heading of 341 degrees and would not budge from that heading! Also, I was unable to set a climb rate less than 2000fpm (nearly off the scale). When I did try the pitch control, the plane began to dive. I had to dis-engage the A/P. How do you set it up? I see no way to set a target altitude or level for the autopilot climb to aim for.
Then at 14000 feet, No.3 engine quit. I could find no option to attempt a relight and I could see no reason why this happened. I was using ActiveSky 6.5 with real weather at the time.
I realise that flying the Viscount is a fairly steep learning curve, but this is not working well. I have been flying FS for 20 years and have some experience but the systems and dynamics on this aircraft are either so real that it is almost impossible to fly her accurately without a real First Officer at your side, or I have set it all up wrong. I use a CH Pro Yoke for control.
to be honest, a step by step written startup guide would be VERY useful! How do you guys do it? Also, to be able to use the autopilot properly would be a great help as I will have my hands full flying her manually for 2 hours at FL180. Also, with the aircraft stable in flilght, I can turn my ttention to other necessary items that perhaps I'm missing that will keep her in the air!
I want to persevere with this aircraft - she looks and sounds great! But unless I can start up and get the autopilot working usefully, its going to be tough to fly her and keep her airborne, let alone trying to fly online with her.
Any help anyone can be would be great.
Thanks for listening,
Kind regards,
Lee
Need some more help here flying the Viscount 800 (British Airways red/blue variant) ....
So far, I have installed the aircraft from the downloads and all seems to be working ok. I use FS9. My problem is that I am unable to even start the engines manually! Despite reading and re-reading the manual and searching the checklists, there is no actual procedure to start the engines. the only way I can get them started is by using the "R" start option (Rapid start) on the added panel. This is of course unrealistic.
But thats not all. After starting the engines and flying a circuit, I found that the sounds are wonderful and the aircraft is fairly easy to control. I even managed to fly an ILS approach into 27L at Heathrow, despite finding the option to turn on the crosshairs quite by chance (manual does not show how to do it).
today, I tried to take her up to FL180 on a hop across to Aldergrove. The takeoff was ok and I climbed out and despite a good read of the manual, was unable to get any stability using the autopilot. I hand-flew her up to 12,000 feet and found that the aircraft wanted to pull to the left markedly. Upon engaging the autopilot, it promptly rolled the aircraft onto a heading of 341 degrees and would not budge from that heading! Also, I was unable to set a climb rate less than 2000fpm (nearly off the scale). When I did try the pitch control, the plane began to dive. I had to dis-engage the A/P. How do you set it up? I see no way to set a target altitude or level for the autopilot climb to aim for.
Then at 14000 feet, No.3 engine quit. I could find no option to attempt a relight and I could see no reason why this happened. I was using ActiveSky 6.5 with real weather at the time.
I realise that flying the Viscount is a fairly steep learning curve, but this is not working well. I have been flying FS for 20 years and have some experience but the systems and dynamics on this aircraft are either so real that it is almost impossible to fly her accurately without a real First Officer at your side, or I have set it all up wrong. I use a CH Pro Yoke for control.
to be honest, a step by step written startup guide would be VERY useful! How do you guys do it? Also, to be able to use the autopilot properly would be a great help as I will have my hands full flying her manually for 2 hours at FL180. Also, with the aircraft stable in flilght, I can turn my ttention to other necessary items that perhaps I'm missing that will keep her in the air!
I want to persevere with this aircraft - she looks and sounds great! But unless I can start up and get the autopilot working usefully, its going to be tough to fly her and keep her airborne, let alone trying to fly online with her.
Any help anyone can be would be great.
Thanks for listening,
Kind regards,
Lee
Lee James
Training Captain
747 Fleet
British Airways Virtual
Pilot of ...
SPEEDBIRD 9 DELTA VICTOR (BAW9DV)
Flying the Boeing 747-400....
Training Captain
747 Fleet
British Airways Virtual
Pilot of ...
SPEEDBIRD 9 DELTA VICTOR (BAW9DV)
Flying the Boeing 747-400....
-
fighterpilot
- Trident
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 19 Nov 2006, 16:33
- Location: Andover
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Glad too see you are enjoying these classic aircraft, I have certainly been having great fun learning about and flying them since I found CBFS. Not sure i can help you with all your problems, but here are a couple of possibilities. Engine 3 quitting, sounds like a de-icing issue, ensure you have them set as per the manual. I have had this happen is the HS.748 and had both engines quit simultaneously, Not fun!
As for your starting problems, I assume you turn the start master on, and press the starter button, then the bit possibly not mentioned explicitly in the manual, open the HP cock on the pedestal for the engine you are starting.
The autopilot can be tricky to get used to at first. I assume you load a flight with a default aircraft (I use the C172) and then select the viscount. I find this can solve any number of problems with the complicated aspects of these panels e.g. the autopilot. Not sure I can explain to you how to get the autopliot to function to operate correctly so will leave it to some of the resident experts to help you there as i probably wouldn't use the correct terminology etc.
Hope some of this makes sense and is useful to you. Turning this on its head I wouldn't have a clue to half of the systems on the more modern aircraft you fly.
Richard
As for your starting problems, I assume you turn the start master on, and press the starter button, then the bit possibly not mentioned explicitly in the manual, open the HP cock on the pedestal for the engine you are starting.
The autopilot can be tricky to get used to at first. I assume you load a flight with a default aircraft (I use the C172) and then select the viscount. I find this can solve any number of problems with the complicated aspects of these panels e.g. the autopilot. Not sure I can explain to you how to get the autopliot to function to operate correctly so will leave it to some of the resident experts to help you there as i probably wouldn't use the correct terminology etc.
Hope some of this makes sense and is useful to you. Turning this on its head I wouldn't have a clue to half of the systems on the more modern aircraft you fly.
Richard
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DaveB
- The Ministry
- Posts: 30457
- Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
- Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
- Contact:
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Hi Y'all 
I've just dug the v2 panel instructions out (current is v4 I think).. (the last set I printed) and at 24 pages long, theres enough info in there for you not to fall into any holes ;-) I dunno if you've tried Lee but for me.. the only way to get my head around these files is to print em off. I read the printed word on paper much better than I do onscreen
With practice, you'll find that you can get away with not using ALL of the procedures on the Viscount but the trick is knowing which ones you can leave out. ;-)
I note on the v2 instructions for initial starting that there is no mention of opening the HP cocks though there is for relight.
Unfortunately.. I have to bugger off sharpish now but hopefully, one of the guys will be along to sort you out soon ;-)
Ooops.. knicked a couple of mins more Re the HP Cocks.. I'm pretty certain they're part of the intuitive checklist (tick if procedure correct.. red cross if incorrect) plus the No.3 engine out is as Richard suggests almost certainly a flameout due ice ingestion. Again, the procedures are there in the printed doc (or unprinted if you prefer) to work around this ;-)
ATB
DaveB :tab:
I've just dug the v2 panel instructions out (current is v4 I think).. (the last set I printed) and at 24 pages long, theres enough info in there for you not to fall into any holes ;-) I dunno if you've tried Lee but for me.. the only way to get my head around these files is to print em off. I read the printed word on paper much better than I do onscreen
With practice, you'll find that you can get away with not using ALL of the procedures on the Viscount but the trick is knowing which ones you can leave out. ;-) I note on the v2 instructions for initial starting that there is no mention of opening the HP cocks though there is for relight.
Unfortunately.. I have to bugger off sharpish now but hopefully, one of the guys will be along to sort you out soon ;-)
Ooops.. knicked a couple of mins more
Re the HP Cocks.. I'm pretty certain they're part of the intuitive checklist (tick if procedure correct.. red cross if incorrect) plus the No.3 engine out is as Richard suggests almost certainly a flameout due ice ingestion. Again, the procedures are there in the printed doc (or unprinted if you prefer) to work around this ;-) ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
And for the AP, it's a tad old for a target altitude setting. The trick is to set it to a reasonable climb (or descent) rate using the pitch control setting (generally one click = + or - 100 fpm) and when near required altitude reduce it. When at required altitude kick in the Alt Hold switch.
It needs a bit more flying than the modern stuff... Which is fun of course.
It needs a bit more flying than the modern stuff... Which is fun of course.
-
Charlie Hotel
- Chipmunk
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 13:56
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Lee,
Below is the engine start checklist that I use and gets them up and running every time:
Fuel Trim SET
HP Cocks CLOSED
Throttle IDLE
Booster Pumps ALL ON
Fuel Pressure Lamps ALL OUT
High Stop Lamps OUT
Low Stop Lamps OUT
Ice Inspection Light AS REQUIRED
Prop Area CLEAR
Start Master START
Start Selector No. 4 SELECTED
Starter Button PUSH ON
Ignition Lamp ON
1,500 - 1,800 RPM HP COCK OPEN
Oil Pressure CHECK
Fuel Flow CHECK
4,500RPM approx STARTER LAMP OFF
High Stop Lamp ON
HP Cock LOCK OUT
=> Repeat for Engines 3, 2, 1
RPM & TGT STABLE
Start Master SAFE
Start Selector 4 SELECTED
Battery Isolation Switch NORMAL
Ground Power & Chocks REMOVED/LAMP OUT
Generators ALL ON
The important bit is to have the HP cock closed, press the start button and monitor the engine RPM. When it rises to 1,500rpm, open the HP cock and it should roar into life. Also, the Fuel Trim needs to be set according to the outside air temperature. There is a chart for this if you click the Fuel Trim button in the cockpit.
For the auto pilot, remember it doesn't have an altitude capture. As Fodda mentioned, you have to engage the autopilot and Pitch Hold and set it to a reasonable climb rate at around 190kt IAS with the climb trim wheel. You have to do this manually, so keep an eye on it. Fortunately, the Viscount is a wonderfully stable aircraft and generally sits at the set climb rate with no fuss. Once you get to within about 200' of your target altitude, reduce the climb rate to around 500fpm and once the altimeter needle gets to target altitude, flick the altitude hold switch.
For your problem of the aircraft pulling to the left, check the engine instruments that they are all about the same rpm (around 14,000 in the climb). You may have clicked a throttle closed by accident (happened to me).
If the aircraft settled on a strange heading, check you have selected autopilot Heading Hold. The heading bug is on the VOR RMI and is adjusted by the knob on the lower left of the dial. The VOR RMI is the gauge with the compass rose above the turn co-ordinator. I sometimes confuse this with the ADF adjustment right next to it and wonder why the aircraft hasn't budged.
As for the engine cutting out, it could be the power unit icing up or the fuel. For the power unit deicing, switch it to LOW if OAT <+10 degC and HIGH if OAT >-6 degC. The fuel heaters should be ON passing through 10,000feet.
The V4 Viscount 810 Cockpit Manual is really recommended reading and it covers a lot of the above along with emergency procedures and useful data.
Good luck,
Charlie
Below is the engine start checklist that I use and gets them up and running every time:
Fuel Trim SET
HP Cocks CLOSED
Throttle IDLE
Booster Pumps ALL ON
Fuel Pressure Lamps ALL OUT
High Stop Lamps OUT
Low Stop Lamps OUT
Ice Inspection Light AS REQUIRED
Prop Area CLEAR
Start Master START
Start Selector No. 4 SELECTED
Starter Button PUSH ON
Ignition Lamp ON
1,500 - 1,800 RPM HP COCK OPEN
Oil Pressure CHECK
Fuel Flow CHECK
4,500RPM approx STARTER LAMP OFF
High Stop Lamp ON
HP Cock LOCK OUT
=> Repeat for Engines 3, 2, 1
RPM & TGT STABLE
Start Master SAFE
Start Selector 4 SELECTED
Battery Isolation Switch NORMAL
Ground Power & Chocks REMOVED/LAMP OUT
Generators ALL ON
The important bit is to have the HP cock closed, press the start button and monitor the engine RPM. When it rises to 1,500rpm, open the HP cock and it should roar into life. Also, the Fuel Trim needs to be set according to the outside air temperature. There is a chart for this if you click the Fuel Trim button in the cockpit.
For the auto pilot, remember it doesn't have an altitude capture. As Fodda mentioned, you have to engage the autopilot and Pitch Hold and set it to a reasonable climb rate at around 190kt IAS with the climb trim wheel. You have to do this manually, so keep an eye on it. Fortunately, the Viscount is a wonderfully stable aircraft and generally sits at the set climb rate with no fuss. Once you get to within about 200' of your target altitude, reduce the climb rate to around 500fpm and once the altimeter needle gets to target altitude, flick the altitude hold switch.
For your problem of the aircraft pulling to the left, check the engine instruments that they are all about the same rpm (around 14,000 in the climb). You may have clicked a throttle closed by accident (happened to me).
If the aircraft settled on a strange heading, check you have selected autopilot Heading Hold. The heading bug is on the VOR RMI and is adjusted by the knob on the lower left of the dial. The VOR RMI is the gauge with the compass rose above the turn co-ordinator. I sometimes confuse this with the ADF adjustment right next to it and wonder why the aircraft hasn't budged.
As for the engine cutting out, it could be the power unit icing up or the fuel. For the power unit deicing, switch it to LOW if OAT <+10 degC and HIGH if OAT >-6 degC. The fuel heaters should be ON passing through 10,000feet.
The V4 Viscount 810 Cockpit Manual is really recommended reading and it covers a lot of the above along with emergency procedures and useful data.
Good luck,
Charlie
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Hi folks,
I've followed Lee over from BAV, as he posted a link to your site. I've had Rick's previous Viscount and Vanguard, so came over to join on and get the updates. I'm having the starting problem with the Vanguard 951/953. When trying to start the engines, the Start Fuel MIs are not showing START, so trying to start the engines is not doing much.
I'm positive I'm working through the manual steps OK (I have version 5 of the panel manual) - can you think of anything I am misisng?
In the meantime I'll have a play with the Viscount, and hope that hasn't changed too much
I've followed Lee over from BAV, as he posted a link to your site. I've had Rick's previous Viscount and Vanguard, so came over to join on and get the updates. I'm having the starting problem with the Vanguard 951/953. When trying to start the engines, the Start Fuel MIs are not showing START, so trying to start the engines is not doing much.
I'm positive I'm working through the manual steps OK (I have version 5 of the panel manual) - can you think of anything I am misisng?In the meantime I'll have a play with the Viscount, and hope that hasn't changed too much
Old pilots never die - they just taxy off to a distant parking spot...
-
DaveB
- The Ministry
- Posts: 30457
- Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
- Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
- Contact:
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Hello Matey and welcome
Can you confirm you're using FS9??
I take it you are 'selecting' START on the pedestal. The switches have 2 positions.. START and OFF. They all have to be in START in order to fire the engines up whereupon the engines will stabilise at a smidge over 1000rpm. Once you have them all running, move the START/OFF switches one by one to OFF which will bring them to high ground beta. Make sure also that you have the control locks lever OFF ;-)
EDIT..
Right. I've just gone through a cold start just to make sure everything is 'in order' in my head Presuming you're starting from cold and the relevant electrical switches have been made..
All HP cocks OFF
All Start/OFF switches to START (Start-Relight Fuel MI's should read START at this point)
OPEN Start panel and select Master Start ON (Ignitors lamp will glow)
Select engine 3 to START (switch UP)
Engine 3 LP RPM will start to rotate.. after 10 secs (you can do this a bit earlier) open engine 3 HP Cock (approx 32%) and the engine will spin up to approx 2117rpm.
Do exactly the same routine with engines 4, 1 and 2.
When you have them all running, switch engine 3 START/OFF to OFF. The Start/Relight Fuel MI will change from START to CROSSHATCH and eventually move to NORM. This doesn't happen immediately.. it doesn't on the real one either
Move next to no.4, then 1 and 2 following the same procedure (basically, turning the START/OFF switches to OFF).
At this point, all Start/Relight MI's will be reading NORM and the engines will be at high ground beta (11230rpm).
Any probs.. give me a shout ;-)
ATB
DaveB :tab:
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Can you confirm you're using FS9??
I take it you are 'selecting' START on the pedestal. The switches have 2 positions.. START and OFF. They all have to be in START in order to fire the engines up whereupon the engines will stabilise at a smidge over 1000rpm. Once you have them all running, move the START/OFF switches one by one to OFF which will bring them to high ground beta. Make sure also that you have the control locks lever OFF ;-)
EDIT..
Right. I've just gone through a cold start just to make sure everything is 'in order' in my head
Presuming you're starting from cold and the relevant electrical switches have been made..All HP cocks OFF
All Start/OFF switches to START (Start-Relight Fuel MI's should read START at this point)
OPEN Start panel and select Master Start ON (Ignitors lamp will glow)
Select engine 3 to START (switch UP)
Engine 3 LP RPM will start to rotate.. after 10 secs (you can do this a bit earlier) open engine 3 HP Cock (approx 32%) and the engine will spin up to approx 2117rpm.
Do exactly the same routine with engines 4, 1 and 2.
When you have them all running, switch engine 3 START/OFF to OFF. The Start/Relight Fuel MI will change from START to CROSSHATCH and eventually move to NORM. This doesn't happen immediately.. it doesn't on the real one either
Move next to no.4, then 1 and 2 following the same procedure (basically, turning the START/OFF switches to OFF).
At this point, all Start/Relight MI's will be reading NORM and the engines will be at high ground beta (11230rpm).
Any probs.. give me a shout ;-)
ATB
DaveB :tab:
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Hi Dave,
Yes, I'm using FS9. I gather these aircraft will work with FSX but haven't got round to loading them yet... looking forward to that!
I'm following the procedure as laid out in the manual. I fnd that when I select the Start Fuel switches to Start, the MIs don't change - they stay on the diagonal-hatching display. I have also found thayt, if I continue anyway, if I select the Start Fuel switches to OFF as the TGT temp peaks (about 6000 deg) the engines will light up. It's a work-around, but not entirely satisfactory.
I have also noticed that none of the MIs on that fuel panel work... if I play with the inter-tank and cross-feed switches they don't register either.
Ian
Yes, I'm using FS9. I gather these aircraft will work with FSX but haven't got round to loading them yet... looking forward to that!
I'm following the procedure as laid out in the manual. I fnd that when I select the Start Fuel switches to Start, the MIs don't change - they stay on the diagonal-hatching display. I have also found thayt, if I continue anyway, if I select the Start Fuel switches to OFF as the TGT temp peaks (about 6000 deg) the engines will light up. It's a work-around, but not entirely satisfactory.
I have also noticed that none of the MIs on that fuel panel work... if I play with the inter-tank and cross-feed switches they don't register either.
Ian
Old pilots never die - they just taxy off to a distant parking spot...
-
DaveB
- The Ministry
- Posts: 30457
- Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
- Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
- Contact:
Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount
Hiya Ian 
This is odd mate :think: Just in case the cab has got corrupt somewhere along the line, I've uploaded it HERE . Replace the current one with this one (let it overwrite the original if you wish) then try it again
As a test.. open flightsim with a default aircraft (I always start with the Cessna) and when stable (engine running), select one of the Vanguards/Merchantmen. Open the pedestal panel and turn all the HP Cocks to OFF. Make sure the control surfaces/gust locks lever is OFF then try the start routine again. It could be that something as simple as not starting with a default aircraft is at the root of the problem. I know it's a pain in the butt to start every situation with a Cessna (or any other default.. I know that some use the Baron) but it does get rid of 99.9%.. perhaps even 99.99% of all panel related problems ;-) If this fails, we'll have to dig deeper :think:
ATB
DaveB :tab:
This is odd mate :think: Just in case the cab has got corrupt somewhere along the line, I've uploaded it HERE . Replace the current one with this one (let it overwrite the original if you wish) then try it again
As a test.. open flightsim with a default aircraft (I always start with the Cessna) and when stable (engine running), select one of the Vanguards/Merchantmen. Open the pedestal panel and turn all the HP Cocks to OFF. Make sure the control surfaces/gust locks lever is OFF then try the start routine again. It could be that something as simple as not starting with a default aircraft is at the root of the problem. I know it's a pain in the butt to start every situation with a Cessna (or any other default.. I know that some use the Baron) but it does get rid of 99.9%.. perhaps even 99.99% of all panel related problems ;-) If this fails, we'll have to dig deeper :think:
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!