Re: Flight tutorials - Vanguard and/or Viscount

Post by **Viscount Cornbank** » 02 May 2009, 20:14

Unfortunately I can't really offer any advice which has not already been given as it works flawlessly for me

One thing to remember is that the rather unique Tyne starting procedure is SIMULATED; ie while the engines are idling at low ground idle (circa 2100 LP RPM) as far as FS9 is concerned they are not actually running at all, this is confirmed by a look outside and the props will be stationary. It is not possible to do it accurately otherwise. Genuine FS9 light up does not occur until the Start levers are moved to off/norm, assuming fuel is on.

When selecting the Vanguard, I suggest that a native FS9 aeroplane is selected first and that it's engine(s) is/are running, then select the Vanguard and if a cold start is required , shut down the engines by placing each HP fuel cock lever to the Shut position. It is essential that engine shutdowns are performed thus and not by closing a game controller mixture lever.
Subsequent down the line shutdowns/starts will perform normally without changing aircraft.

A bigger mystery is why none of the MIs show on the fuel panel

. For example the LP fuel indicators are simply showing the state of the FS9 parameter ENGX FUEL VALVE, no jiggery pokery, so assuming electical power (28VDC, nothing to do with inverters or any thing else) is available, either OPEN or SHUT should be displayed, Xhatch can only show if no current is applied. The inter-engine and crossfeed cocks are a little more complex but nevertheless should show OPEN/SHUT, or NORM/ISOL in the case or the outer tank isolation cocks, if there is an electrical supply.

cheers
;-)
Fraser

Post by **TSR2** » 02 May 2009, 23:23

OK Chaps,

I'm running Vista x64 too and have tried with both FSX and FS9 with no problems. A couple of things though. There is no cold and dark start button with the Vanguard, so if you've gone and switched everything off, there may be something you haven't switched back on which doesn't show up in the checklist.

More likely (give that the MI aren't showing for you) is that somewhere there is still bits from the old Vanguard (you did say you had Ricks old one pior to this download.) I'd have a loog in your gauges folder. See if there is a VC9*.CAB file. If there is, I don't think it should be there as the new version has this in the panel folder, I think the old versions had it in the gauges folder. To play safe, copy the VC951.cab (and VC952.cab if you are using that too) from the panel folder to the gauges folder, overwriting any that may be there.

Let us know how you get on.

All the best

impearse · Post by **impearse** » 03 May 2009, 00:08

I'll give everything in the Gauges folder another look - think I got it all out but wirth a check. I'll also revisit the panel setup in case, as oyu say, I've missed something silly somewhere.

Post by **DaveB** » 04 May 2009, 12:10

Ian.. just a quick note.

I think it's already been mentioned that if you have the old panel and the new one.. remove the old one and any associated cab. The reason I highlight it again is because I had to cancel a VA flight last night due to the One-Eleven I was in only burning off the LH tank. Try as I might, I couldn't get the RH to burn so the flight had to be cancelled (when the LH tank ran dry!) then mucho time was spent offline trying to fathom the reason why. The 510ED's all worked fine but none of the others. Having had a rush of sh1t to the brain this morning.. I looked in the DM Shared Files folder and checked the date of the cab for the 500 model. I use bits of DM's cab in other panels so have a duplicate of the cab in my Gauges folder. I was shocked to find that the 'correct' one had a file date 12months newer than the one in my gauges folder so.. that one was binned and a copy of the new one dropped in it's place. Just tried the One-Elevens again and they're now burning fuel as they should. Not sure why this hasn't come to the fore before as I've flown the aircraft in question loads of times but there you go ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

impearse · Post by **impearse** » 04 May 2009, 16:36

I've checked the Gauges folder and I'm pretty sure all the old CABs are out. I'll re-read the manual and make sure that I've not missed a trick during the setup - a complete checklist from "cold and dark" would be useful if anyone has such a thing.

Post by **DaveB** » 04 May 2009, 18:22

Hi Ian..

Okey doh and rgr that ;-) A full cold and dark checklist hasn't been written as far as I know as the model was designed to be 'On' by default as most others are. As it happens.. the majority of the overhead is as it would be dark.. the main exceptions being battery and inverters which effectively leave the aircraft cold. On the real one, you could trip a number of breakers too but thankfully, Fraser is yet to model breakers and fuses

So.. if you start flightsim with a Cessna (try it rather than the 737) then switch to the Vanguard.. close the HP Cocks.. turn off the inverters and finally the battery and there you have what can be considered a bonafide cold Vanguard. I appreciate this isn't as good as a cold and dark start with full checklist and switches have to be checked prior to startup. Imagine how we feel on APEP after numerous dozens of kids have been up front flicking everything in sight.. despite them being told not to touch! :roll:

Btw.. which aircraft were you starting with and was this in a cold condition??

ATB

DaveB :tab:

impearse · Post by **impearse** » 04 May 2009, 19:01

I started with the DC3, for no very good reason (I LIKE DC3s!) and set it up with just battery power on, then switched from there. I wuill have another play this evening and see what I get.

impearse · Post by **impearse** » 04 May 2009, 19:37

OK, I started FS9 and loaded a flight with the default King Air 350. Switched on the battery master and avionics then switched to the Vanguard (G-APEH). Switched the external power on, Start Fuel switches to Start, MIs are now showing correctly. Closed the HP Cocks, Anti Collision lights on, doors are closed, Start Master to Start, start switch for engine 3 to Start, count to 10 and open the HP Cock for engine 3... revs and tgt increase, igniter light goes out about 450 degrees, tgt reaches 600 then starts to drop, no engine fire-up. If I select OFF on the Start Fuel switch at this point, the engine will light up and all is OK.

fighterpilot · Post by **fighterpilot** » 04 May 2009, 19:56

thats sounds about right to me?

Richard

Post by **DaveB** » 04 May 2009, 20:49

Hi Ian..

I think I see where the confusion is coming from with that description you've given me. As mentioned above in another one of my blustering posts.. the engines don't whiz-bang into life on start.. they simply start (run at around 2117rpm). This simulates low beta on the real aircraft as flightsim can't handle the 'dual start'.. for want of a better expression. When the start/OFF switch is clicked to OFF.. you see the engines wind up (11230rpm) from what you've just said and this is correct. START and OFF are on the real aircraft to do just that. You start the engines in START (they can't be started any other way) and you can happily sit there with them in start all day.. on the real one. In flightsim.. you see the all the gauges moving but don't hear a great deal of sound.. this is because FS can't duplicate a real Tyne. Fraser programmed the gauges to make it look like they're doing what they should be doing (rather than what is actually happening) but for the sake of argument.. the sim isn't seeing any engine start until the START/OFF switches are turned to OFF.

Does this make sense?? :think: Turning the START/OFF to OFF isn't turning the engines off.. it's turning the engines from Start to Normal. I admit that OFF is a bit misleading.. especially in the sim and without any prior knowledge of how the real aircraft works but Fraser has modelled the system as close to the real one as possible and START/OFF is how that particular switch is labelled. When you wind the real engines down.. you don't turn the Start/OFF to OFF because it will already be in OFF. You turn it to START which brings the engines/props e t c into low ground beta then you cut the HP Cocks ;-) Again.. this doesn't work in the sim.. not through any fault of Frasers.. simply because the sim can't handle that sort of operation ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab: