Failed stunt 'caused air crash'

[Nigel H-J]

Just read this from the BBC, be interested to know why as he was a member of the Flying Club why they had not kept a record of when his pilots' licence was due for renewal and equally an up-to-date record of his medical 'fitness to fly'.

I know that this may bring about a 'debate' regarding my questions but surely it should be the responsibility of the club to keep records and also ensure that any members are current before flying from the field. If there is no legal obligation for flying clubs to undertake checks presently then there should be to prevent another incident such as this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8296167.stm

Nigel.

[SkippyBing]

Hmmm, having read the report I don't think it would have made much of a difference in this case if his license and medical had been in date. It appears he was doing aeros without having had any formal instruction in them so I think it's fair to say he would have done the same thing anyway.
Additionally it was his own aircraft so it's hard to see how much duty of care the flying club has, obviously if they own and operate the airfield as well possibly slightly more than if they're merely a lodger that provided hangarage to the pilot concerned. Obviously for pilots renting aircraft from the flying club then they'd be stupid not to check the individual is in date, but in this case the pilot concerned could have told them to ram it as they couldn't stop him taking his own aircraft and doing what he wanted.

[Prop Jockey]

Unless you're hiring an aircraft from a school Nigel its very much self-regulation. In the light of Colin McRaes administrative oversights, FIs were reminded they should check all the necessary licensing dates when conducting renewals etc - but if you don't bother visitng an instructor for dual checks or revalidations then thats not going to help anyway.

If you tracked an individuals license related dates, you probably also need to extend that the aircraft too, which probably seems like hard work. As and airfield operator, you ask for proof of insurance and liability when an aircraft is based at your airfield. The airfield ops will stipulate that the aircraft always has to be insured. As failure to comply with licensing or maintenance requirements would invalidate the insurance, the airfied operators probably see the insurance requirements as their bit to ensure aircraft are operated as they should be, by appropriately licesend people.

You make a good point though - as those who feel the rules and regs are not mandatory - are perhaps those more likely to end up killing themselves and others.

Cheers

Rich

[Chris Trott]

Here in the US, when renting an aircraft they certainly ensure that you are properly qualified to fly the airplane you're renting, including a checkout in the aircraft (or type) you're going to fly and they take copies of your License, Medical, and Renter's/Non-Owner's Insurance and make note of when they expire. Byond htat, it's the FAA's job to ensure owners are in compliance.

One thing to remember here - every time a 3rd party to keeps track of something like testing or certification, they are accepting the liability for its accuracy and validity. Thus, it is in the businesses best interest to minimize their liability as much as possible and keep as much of it on the regulators and individuals as possible. The rental companies accept the liability of ensuring compliance because they need to so they can prove they did their due diligence and because of their vested interest in ensuring their property isn't damaged, but no airport operator would willingly take liability for the owner's ability to fly since they have no vested interest in the aircraft or its operation (other than any damage it might cause to the airport itself), but that's where the lease contract comes in and limits the liability.

[cstorey]

You can only successfully regulate people who are prepared at least to make some attempt to comply with the rules. In Southern Ireland some years ago there was a particularly nasty fatal accident with children killed in which the owner pilot of the aircraft had never held any licence and had never received any instruction. Furthermore IIRC the aircraft had flown in the region of 1,000 hours from a private strip without any licensed maintenance at all. No amount of rules will stop idiots of this nature

[AllanL]

Many moons ago, one day when I was looking after the launch area at Portmoak a guy strolled up and got into the cockpit of one of the club single seater gliders and started strapping himself in. Now some of the founder members of the club were in the habit of not particularly sticking to the signing in rules, so I wandered over and casually asked matey if he was a club member.

"No." was the simple reply. Then I asked if he had signed in and made out one of the blood chits for a visitor.

"No." was the equally monosyllabic reply. I was now getting grumpy, so I asked which gliding club he was a member of - through increasingly gritted teeth.

"None." was the reply. So where did our hero fly gliders then.

"Never have." The idiot thought it was like some kind of fairground ride where you just got in and everything just happened automatically. He did get the message when I bellowed, "Get out of the ******* glider and off our airfield."

The Darwin awards were invented for folk like him - and one of the Kennedys but the award team chickened out of giving him his.

[Nigel H-J]

He did get the message when I bellowed, "Get out of the ******* glider and off our airfield."

Sorry for laughing but that brought back some memories when I was in the gliding club, unfortunately we had one airman who became a member of our club but in reality should never have been allowed to pass his aptitude test when applying for the RAF, to give you an insight into how clueless he was he sauntered off to the hanger once (much to our relief) as when he was on the field you had to have two sets of eyes on him all the time to ensure his and other members safety. Sometime had passed before he was seen returning to the launch site....no amount of shouting or arm waving could attract his attention and get him away from walking alongside the cable which was by now attached to a glider awaiting launch!! Even the CFI took him up on a training flight once and in desperation did everything he could to try to frighten the little sod and rid him from the club......never seen our CFI flying in the manner he did but sadly all it was all in vain, he was too thick to be frightened and just thought it was all normal flying!!

Nigel.

[Tomb]

portmoak, that brings back memories, i did my diamond hieght there

hill into wave, i have never topped that flight in anything before or since

RAFGSA visit ,83 i think