Scrapping of young airframes

[WhisperJet]

Hello All,

reading of a 12-year-old A321 that is first of type to be scrapped soon (although obviously in good shape) -
I really wonder (once again) in what times of affluence we are living...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/5135281/
http://www.airplaneupload.de/archiv.php ... aB5EKS.jpg

More on the topic in general here...
http://netairspace.gebenus.com/viewtopi ... 13&t=11272

All the best,

Nick

[Garry Russell]

More value in spares

12 years is not that young..perhaps today.

Some Viscounts and Comets were less than ten years old when corrosion forced scrapping...EAA Comets and Channel Viscounts.

I think the average service life of British Tridents was about 11 years...with the longest serving about 15

Some two year old A.318's have been scrapped

One of easy Jets recently retired Boeing 737's has gone to Kemble for parting out

[jonesey2k]

I think I read somewhere that because the computer systems and avionics are built so deeply into the airframe it would be cheaper to buy a new plane then to upgrade it all. What computer did you have 10 years ago? I bet its nothing like what you have today and the hardware advances in the aviation world are a lot more significant.

[VC10]

I think I read somewhere that because the computer systems and avionics are built so deeply into the airframe it would be cheaper to buy a new plane then to upgrade it all. What computer did you have 10 years ago? I bet its nothing like what you have today and the hardware advances in the aviation world are a lot more significant.

I can't agree with that. The processing power required to move the elevators is no different now than it was 20 years ago. As for software, either replace the computer and send back to the overhaul company for update or you update the s/ware on board through a data loader in the cockpit or through replacing a memory module on the front of the computer.

Paul
(Engineer Licensed on A310, A320 series, A330, A343/6, B747-400 & B757)

[TSR2]

Same as cars, nothing is built to last these days, the manufactures dont look to sell cars, they just want a fixed monthly payment so they can manage their cashflow over 3 or 4 years. its all about finance. Same with the aircraft, very few airlines actually buy aircraft these days, they are all financed in one for or another and because its finance companies that own the aircraft their only use to them is the maximum monetary value that can be achieved. If thats leasing them out then fine, but increasingly its parting them out. Finance companies arent airlines so have no use for aircraft as such.

[DispatchDragon]

I remember having a long conversation with our Airbus rep about life cycles of the A32O once upon a time, the official view was the airframe would be redundant in fifteen years, sounds about right to me.

leif

[WhisperJet]

I agree with you and your arguments may well be right.
I just think we're on the wrong track breaking up a tidy and well running machine just to save cash in spare parts.
Or - even worse - to guarantee cash flow on new leasing contracts.

Just as Ben wrote - nothing is built to last these days. I'm familiar to this perspective - makes me take even more care of things that are obviously old but have served well and still do. Yes I'm pretty familiar with that - but I just couldn't imagine this concering 50 Mio. Euro aircraft. I keep learning...

All the best,

Nick

[Garry Russell]

But as I say Nick...twelve years was all you could expect in the classic days before real problems were had

When the Ambassador crashed at LHR due to a 17 year old flap rod breaking, concern was shown at the increasing number of geriatric aeroplanes of 15 years old or more still flying

Only recently have aeroplanes been lasting as long as they do now,...unusual perhaps, but not in the least surprising.

With such small profit margin's there is little point in running an old version against the latest model.

[WhisperJet]

But as I say Nick...twelve years was all you could expect in the classic days before real problems were had

When the Ambassador crashed at LHR due to a 17 year old flap rod breaking, concern was shown at the increasing number of geriatric aeroplanes of 15 years old or more still flying

Only recently have aeroplanes been lasting as long as they do now,...unusual perhaps, but not in the least surprising.

That's an interesting read.
Especially when looking at the serving lives of the Trident!

You know, I just came in writing the above from another point of view - let's say the 1,651 (!) Boeing 737 Classic aircraft that were in commercial service as of summer 2010 or Delta's fleet of 34 DC-9er aircraft. In this context I'm still surprised about scrapping a twelve year old A321 - especially as we're not talking about "forced scrapping" here...

With such small profit margin's there is little point in running an old version against the latest model.

That will probably be the main reason...
I sincerely doubt that this is a good development though...

A good weekend to you all,

Nick

[Garry Russell]

In the end Nick...as mentioned above, it's all a part of the disposable society.

What is a new trend is like Air France and BA who after using A.320 for many years are retiring and scrapping but replacing them with new models which in the old days would not have happened as production runs were never that long.

Spares are a funny things

When Air Bridge were down to three Merchantmen they needed to maintain two for up to five years

The very best of the three, by far was G-APEM and that was the one that was scrapped, simply because she contained more useful spares and so gave the better chance of keeping the two other flying.

Depends how you look at it, if its a good sound machine you want then 'EM would be the one to stay, but if you are thinking which is the biggest stock of spares?, then 'EM becomes the one for the chop.


This is why some two year old A.318 from frontier were scrapped...no one wants the airframes but the spares are good for other A.320 types and the specific A.318 bits can be sold as well to the few operator that do use the type. This will add up to more than the value of the entire frame if the parts are sold separately.

Dealers can make a mint, the newer the frame and parts the more they can make