Vanguard 'Figures'

[Garry Russell]

That ties in with my thinking Dave

As I mentioned...Invicta complaints but that was years after the public were used to jets an many routes and pressure was being put on to get rid of non jets.

I probably was acceptable at the time...but thing change.

I get people saying The Dash Eight 400Q is noisy and has vibration ...perhaps they never flew in a Herald that when throttled back for decent vibrated and was so noisy you could hardly speak at times. But I found in good especially after my one service flight in a Morton Air Services Dakota that left me never wanting to fly in one again.

All comparative

[DaveB]

I have to admit I find the noise and vibration great but that's speaking as an enthusiast not an everyday passenger The Dove, Rapide and TwinPin are the last prop aircraft I've flown in.. none of which could be considered either vibration free or quiet but granted.. none can be compared to a turbo prop.. latter day or modern

ATB
DaveB

[Garry Russell]

I must say, the noise and shaking as a Trislander goes to take off is quite exhilarating and gives a good impression or power and speed as you are low to the deck too.

But I didn't like the Dak flight (G-AMYJ)...1:30+ on an inside seat in turbulence and cloud

Did not impress this Eleven Year Old

[Ralphc]

Hello Gentlemen...
Phew... Interesting debate. Loads of knowledge and experience coming through. Enjoying reading this thread. Clearly the Vanguard had a few problems..mine's fine though Still enjoying it....

What ever the reality it did get known as the Vickers Vibrator.

Reminds me....must get that vibration sorted on my joystick for a more realistic effect....
Thanks
Ralph

[DaveB]

Yes.. I've heard that Ralph You could argue these things all day and get nowhere. Take for example the unkind nickname oft given to the Trident.. The Gripper. PeterM on this forum flew T2's and T3's in his airline career with BEA/BA and considers the tag complete poppycock! As a pilot, you'd think he'd know wouldn't you. Still.. many out there still refer to it as The Gripper. Peter never had a Trident 'Grip'.. perhaps those who did weren't doing it right
ATB
DaveB

[Garry Russell]

A friend of mine was a BOAC VC 10 pilot.

I mentioned a HS.125 that had visited here the day before in that it was by then a rare Srs 1

He said..ah a gripper...the first time I ever heard that term

So I asked him what a gripper was, he said any of the early jets. 707, DC 8, Trident, One-Eleven...any that made lots of noise, lots of smoke and took off nose high but their rate of climb was not as spectacular as the vision and sound of power would have you believe.

So I've always taken it as an expression describing an early jet

It is often said the Trident was called the gripper because of it's notorious reluctance to leave the ground. The took off just fine and comparable to anything else

I don't recall any Trident ever failing to take off for reasons to do with the design.

The calling of the Trident 'the gripper' is a term I've only heard applied to it after it went out of service.

It is complete BS and made up by some spotty and then gets repeated as fact...like the BS of Channel Airways pinching Continentals livery...complete rubbish reported as fact.

Even have esteemed bodies like Air Britain saying the Canadair CL-44D4 had a Convair 880/990 windscreen...complete BLX.

There is a lot of modern 'fact' that are rubbish....there was never a BEA SpeedJack or High Speed Jack...it was called Flying Jack and a early BUA One- Eleven was a BAC One-Eleven 201AC not a BAC 111-201AC One-Eleven.

[Ralphc]

Hi Dave and Gary...
Where do these myths come from I wonder... An interesting read. The term 'Gripper' I'd never heard of. However, Mr Peter M has flown them, statements are always best from the 'Horses mouth' so to speak. He'll know.

In an idle moment last night, I thought I'd check, out of interest, this business of Channel Airways and Continental's livery....I like Airline liveries...

It is complete BS and made up by some spotty and then gets repeated as fact...like the BS of Channel Airways pinching Continentals livery...complete rubbish reported as fact.

They look similar, but not identical Why would they 'copy' a livery? Anyway, really interesting stuff, thanks again..Now going to find some aviation myths..
Best Wishes
Ralph

[Garry Russell]

A few liveries do get copied.

BAF use the Maritime Friendship livery for their hoops and after an aborted plan to hire a Boeing 747 for transatlantic services and at one time showed a 747 artist impression with BAF on a modified Boeing livery, they kept the Boeing livery...just widened the bands on the fin (like Brooklands G-APIM)

Channel already had virtually the same livery on the early Viscount 700 as the later ex Continental machines.

The tail was very different and it was only the Continental type cockpit and the white that differed.

Continental didn't have the red band

The basic Channel livery stems from the same time as the Continental was changed, long before the ex Continental V.812s jpoined the fleet.

But it was not a copy but a deliberate dual livery.

Continental planned in the early to mid sixties to start Transatlantic flights at a convenient time but wanted to put a plan in place. Where as Pan Am and TWA based short haul jets in Europe to connect up their Transatlantic flight Continental had a different approach

Channel was going to be Continentals link in Europe and a similar livery was used. The V.812 deal was an extension of that tie up.

The services never happened. but Channels was not a copy but their version of a dual livery.

The Tridents were even had Continental Golden Jet on the fin as a double meaning for services in Europe and of course the US tie up.

Channel did pinch something earlier

They bought a DC 4 from Riddle (G-ARYY) and liked the riddle fin flash so painted that on all their fleet. The livery was a green stripe at the time which they adopted when they bought some Vikings painted with the exact same band.

Invicta used basic British Eagle for their ex BEIA Viscounts and was one of many airlines that put ex Air Canada Vanguards into service in basic Air Canada livery.

Copying or adopting exisiting schemes was widespread yet it is only the Channel Golden livery that's flagged and that wasn't a copy.