BEA book by Charles Woodley

Post by **Viscount Cornbank** » 08 Aug 2006, 19:55

G-APEE was the first Vanguard in service and in fact pics of it are quite common.

And the first out of service :sad:

Flew it home from Manchester this morning; couldn't help but think of those 36 poor souls.

Fraser

Post by **Garry Russell** » 08 Aug 2006, 20:10

Indeed it was and a very sad affair.

Garry

Davem2004 · Post by **Davem2004** » 09 Aug 2006, 17:10

G-APEE was the first Vanguard in service and in fact pics of it are quite common

You guys must have better photograph access than I do. The only photograph on the net that I can find of 'Double Echo' is the one on the BAmuseum.com 1960-70 photograph gallery, and even then you'd have to take their word for it as the reg' is indistinct.

The only other picture I've ever seen was in an 'Aircraft Illustrated' article donkeys years ago and even then you really couldn't read the reg'.

If anyone knows of some other sources I'd love to know as I've had a fascination with this aircraft's fate since luckily obtaining a copy of the official aircraft accident report a few months ago.

Thanks,

Dave

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 17:21

Who said anything about the net?..that's restricting things a bit.

Any article of book on the Vanguard history and introduction into service will usually contain pics of G-APEE or G-APEB

Some Vanguards are rarely shown but EE is a common one as it did the route proving and was the first in service with EF following immediately after.

If EE had lived longer than OCT 65 it would have been more photographed my the masses and appear on A net.

As it was it was gone before most people had cameras.

But pics of EE are certainly not rare especially when the source is the official BEA library, but the reg is often not readable.

Garry

Davem2004 · Post by **Davem2004** » 09 Aug 2006, 17:26

Any article of book on the Vanguard history and introduction into service will usually contain pics of G-APEE...

Hello Garry,

Can you give me some examples?

Dave

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 17:29

Hi Dave

http://www.britishpathe.com/product_dis ... =61&rpp=20

It's on page four of this search and second from the bottom is EE being delivered

Also other bits on the Vanguard including the crash on other pages.

I have not linked this before because of the crash having sad memories to some on here.

If I try to minimise the seach to lose the battleship I lose some of the aircraft links.

Garry

Davem2004 · Post by **Davem2004** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:00

Hello Garry,

Thanks for the link. I was looking for a book and I end up with a newsreel...what a bonus!

Cheers!

Dave

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:10

Hi Dave

The London Airport books they used to sell had a page showing the Vanguard near the front and how the airstairs folded.....that was all 'PEE

1962 ish I think.

If you see a BEA official pic of a Vanguard with the small tail square it is more likely to be PEB or E than any other as they were the two in most of the publicity shots at the beginning of it's career

ATB

Garry

Davem2004 · Post by **Davem2004** » 09 Aug 2006, 21:11

Hello Garry,

Thanks again for the info.

Found this on Wikipedia. It's dated as 1965 which, with the Trident in the background, I would imagine would be about right. The surprising thing (for me at least) is that both the Vanguards have still got the small red square on the tail. When did the change-over come about for the Vanguards to the larger red square?

Dave

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 21:45

I have no idea except only the earliest ones were delivered with the smaller square.

G-APEF or G may have been the first as I have not seen a pic of F with the small square.

I will need to see what's what as I don't recall seeing A in the small square either. That was repainted before service as it had been in the pinstripes.

On your pic the one behind in a 951 as well so it's an early build. 1965 seems late for that and the fact there is a Trident there does not mean the Trident was in service....could be an preservice visit, but of course it could be anything, but there is only the one Trident there so looks like not many about. G-APEC looks very fresh there as well.

I do have a pic of H on the line with the large square. and I have pics of B,C,D,E with the small.

My guess is they felt it should be larger but a certain amount were already painted as they were painted on the line.

As to the ones that had the smaller squares they may have been left until a major or a repaint was due.

I am, or have been trying to find as many pics as I can of Viscounts and Vanguards so a clearer pattern may form.

But its a major task as there are some BEA Viscounts I have never seen pics of!

And quite a few oddball I didn't know about until recently have turned up...like the hybrid Red Square/Flying Jack Vanguard I recently painted

Garry