Classic British Flight Sim

cstorey wrote:Aharon is clearly unfamiliar

Actually, I know that the Rock can create winds BUT according to aviation documentary program called Ten Most Dangerous Airports In The World, because Spain refuses to recognize Gibraltar, Spain still refuses to allow any British based airline to fly planes through Spanish airspace on approach toward Gibraltar International Airport, therefore any British based airline plane faces more dangerous approach methods while any non British based airline plane has easier and safer approach methods.

Try to rent or look on Internet a tv program called Ten Most Dangerous Airports.

Regards,

Aharon

There is a set of approach plates here: http://www.fly-sea.com/charts/LXGB.pdf
Not up to date but seems pretty complete, including a diagram showing typical wind effects from the rock with different wind directions.

Edit: looking at this map: https://skyvector.com/?ll=36.151166667, ... 301&zoom=3 it seems that there is a restricted area surrounding the Gibraltar area. Such an area will be off limits to other operators as well as British airlines. There is also a minimum altitude of 5700 feet in that grid which suggests to me that approaches over the surrounding countryside may also be significantly hampered by the terrain.

My flights to and from Gib were on the Vanguard as a First Officer and covered the period 1965 to 1971 and some of them were via Madrid, sometimes on the outbound leg, sometimes on the return to LHR leg and sometimes on both legs. I got my command on the Vanguard/Merchantman in late 1973 but did not do a Gibraltar for the rest of my time on the type.

I changed type to command on the Trident 3 in April 1975 and remained on it till I retired in January 1986. I did not do a flight in command to Gibraltar but I do remember one flight to Gib in the fourth seat on the Trident for route experience...In theory I could then operate to Gib in command...But I was never rostered for one. I do remember that on that route experience flight, we landed Easterly and we had to make a tight right turning approach to touchdown to avoid entering Spanish airspace. There was some tension between us and Spain at that time and I can't remember the reason for it. However, it made the Trident turning approach to runway 09 rather interesting and probably a bit alarming for the passengers...There was no problem landing on runway 27 as you could do a long straight in approach. Sadly, I can not find that "RoutEx" flight in my logbook so I can't give the exact year.

As for the Sabre/Trident speeds...Well I'm pretty sure that the Trident would be faster in a shallow descent and could go up to M0.92...I think the Sabre would go faster that that but would have to be in a steepish dive.

The Ten Most Dangerous Airports documentary originally used the word extreme, not dangerous. The title was changed for some markets to make it more exciting.

That documentary doesn't back up the assertion made by Aharon at all, at the 34:50 point the narrator states that Spain has recently allowed access to their airspace by arriving flights. IIRC that was one of the provisions of the 2006 Cordoba Accord. If you look at the charts posted by Archer you can see that, for 09, civilian aircraft will fly inside Spanish airspace on approach. Military aircraft have a slightly different procedure for 09 that doesn't enter Spanish airspace.

The same documentary goes on to state that the biggest problem facing pilots is the wind around the rock.

TTFN

The title was changed for some markets to make it more exciting.

Yes.. and those programmes always seem to quote speeds in Kph to sensationalise a point.
ATB
DaveB

Right, Dave. When it comes to sensationalism, the media goes for the - kil.

Hello Peter,
Thanks for the post. I can't think of a better source on a matter than one who actually experienced it first hand.
I can't imagine what Spain was disgruntled over....
Perhaps an inquisition is in order.
Cheers

Right, Dave. When it comes to sensationalism, the media goes for the - kil.

ATB
DaveB

Dave, did I ever tell you... about my third grade teacher.
Sometimes, if class was boring, I'd tell the teacher I had a headache and wanted to go to the infirmary.
Motive being: milk and cookies often accompanied the aspirin...
Well,... Perhaps over using the excuse, the teacher caught wind of my little charade.. And said to me on a subsequent request to excuse myself from class, if I would like an aspirin she'd be glad to give it to me.
Only, when she said aspirin, she pronounced it like.
Assburn..

And she was a Nun.. - in habit!

Affectionately known as Lead bottom

ATB
DaveB

. Well back OT, then