Formation Training...
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- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
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Formation Training...
I've started training the 208 Squadron AI pilots in formation flying, to get them ready for their trip out to Kenya in June 2010. In the real life flight we went as three four ship formations but for this 50th Anniversary reconstruction I will be sending them in a twelve ship Balbo.
I'm only up to three ship at the moment and we practice on a grass field...However, they are doing pretty well and you can see from the video that they all hit the touchdown "Target Line".
This is YouTube and should be watched in HQ:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_czqZvZ9sug
This is a larger zipped up wmv version of the same video:- ...(it is very slow download at the moment so YouTube is quicker).
http://www.petermcleland.com/video/Form ... aining.zip
One small issue is that AIBlast gets a bit confused with the situation, so the sound is only correct at the beginning when you are watching from the ground
I'm only up to three ship at the moment and we practice on a grass field...However, they are doing pretty well and you can see from the video that they all hit the touchdown "Target Line".
This is YouTube and should be watched in HQ:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_czqZvZ9sug
This is a larger zipped up wmv version of the same video:- ...(it is very slow download at the moment so YouTube is quicker).
http://www.petermcleland.com/video/Form ... aining.zip
One small issue is that AIBlast gets a bit confused with the situation, so the sound is only correct at the beginning when you are watching from the ground
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
- Contact:
Re: Formation Training...
Now it is a gaggle of six:-
A pretty ragged bunch...
Geese might do it better...
They start off so well with their formation take-off...However, they insist on calling on the radio and being polite about not interupting anyone else...I've not yet found a way of stopping these radio calls but the delays are reduced to milliseconds by not being tuned to their frequency
A pretty ragged bunch...
Geese might do it better...
They start off so well with their formation take-off...However, they insist on calling on the radio and being polite about not interupting anyone else...I've not yet found a way of stopping these radio calls but the delays are reduced to milliseconds by not being tuned to their frequency
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
Re: Formation Training...
Wonderful formation flying Peter, just out of curiousity, are you planning at any time to do a four ship aerobatic display by any chance?
Regards
Nigel.
Regards
Nigel.
I used to be an optimist but with age I am now a grumpy old pessimist.
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
- Contact:
Re: Formation Training...
Nigel,Nigel H-J wrote:Wonderful formation flying Peter, just out of curiousity, are you planning at any time to do a four ship aerobatic display by any chance?
Yes I am, but not with AI traffic...For that one I will have to fly all four parts...I didn't do too well with the Avengers in a four ship but I might have a better chance with some other type...Maybe even the Hunter. I think I might just do one manoeuvre at a time and then splice them together for a display
The Traffic thing is just to be able to follow the squadron all the way to Kenya with them being in formation...this will be possible with the system I'm developing
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
Re: Formation Training...
Thanks Peter, will be interesting to see the master in action.
just out of interest I had tried formation aerobatics but found following one into the loop was OK to start with but as coming out over the top no matter how careful one is with the elevator keeping in formation with the lead A/C is extremely difficult and there is a tendancy to either overdo the recovery or underdo it......maybe one day I will have another bash.
Regards
Nigel.
just out of interest I had tried formation aerobatics but found following one into the loop was OK to start with but as coming out over the top no matter how careful one is with the elevator keeping in formation with the lead A/C is extremely difficult and there is a tendancy to either overdo the recovery or underdo it......maybe one day I will have another bash.
Regards
Nigel.
I used to be an optimist but with age I am now a grumpy old pessimist.
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
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Re: Formation Training...
Got it now!...Finally made them fly proper formation:-
Line Abreast just after take-off...
...Crossing Stradishall...
...and touching down.
The complex system now works and I will add the other six and do the number crunching to put them into more sensible formations
Line Abreast just after take-off...
...Crossing Stradishall...
...and touching down.
The complex system now works and I will add the other six and do the number crunching to put them into more sensible formations
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
Re: Formation Training...
Totally taking over this thread, but I'm interested...
Peter, as a real life display formation flyer, how do you find the same or similar flying in FS? Is it harder or easier in your view? Do you reckon you could recreate your past displays using your PC and the models in FS?
Peter, as a real life display formation flyer, how do you find the same or similar flying in FS? Is it harder or easier in your view? Do you reckon you could recreate your past displays using your PC and the models in FS?
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
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Re: Formation Training...
This project involves making it happen for real so that the whole formation can be followed in real time.
Now that I have solved the radio calls problem and got them flying "Line Abreast", the next step is to add the remaining six Hunters and then adjust the formation to a more realistic setup like three four ship "Boxes"...A "Box" looks like this:-
When I get all twelve Hunters flying a Balbo of three Boxes over Stradishall, I will post some shots and another video here
By June 1st 2010 (50th Anniversary of the real flight) they must all be ready to fly as a twelve ship formation from Stradishall to Luqa to Nicosia to Teheran to Sharja to Khormaksar to Embakasi (now "Jomo Kenyatta"). The ferry last three days and I will be able to follow the formation all the way, using Traffic View Board. Since they are AI Traffic they will not be short of fuel but the real aircraft had 100 gallon drop tanks on the outboard pylons as well as the 230 gallon drop tanks on the inboard pylons. I would really like to fit those outboard tanks for the ferry flights and wonder if Dave Garwood has a Model of the FGA9 with those tanks fitted??
The intention is for the twelve ship formation to do two low runs over each destination on arrival (a different formation for each run) and then to run in and break from three four ship "Echelon Starboard" formations...The three echelons will come in at about three minute intervals.
When the whole 208 Squadron project is released the intention is that it will install a Batch File with a Desktop icon which will offer three choices of active Traffic file:-
1. 208 at Stradishall.
2. 208 in transit to Africa.
3. 208 at Nairobi Base (Embakasi).
Now that I have solved the radio calls problem and got them flying "Line Abreast", the next step is to add the remaining six Hunters and then adjust the formation to a more realistic setup like three four ship "Boxes"...A "Box" looks like this:-
When I get all twelve Hunters flying a Balbo of three Boxes over Stradishall, I will post some shots and another video here
By June 1st 2010 (50th Anniversary of the real flight) they must all be ready to fly as a twelve ship formation from Stradishall to Luqa to Nicosia to Teheran to Sharja to Khormaksar to Embakasi (now "Jomo Kenyatta"). The ferry last three days and I will be able to follow the formation all the way, using Traffic View Board. Since they are AI Traffic they will not be short of fuel but the real aircraft had 100 gallon drop tanks on the outboard pylons as well as the 230 gallon drop tanks on the inboard pylons. I would really like to fit those outboard tanks for the ferry flights and wonder if Dave Garwood has a Model of the FGA9 with those tanks fitted??
The intention is for the twelve ship formation to do two low runs over each destination on arrival (a different formation for each run) and then to run in and break from three four ship "Echelon Starboard" formations...The three echelons will come in at about three minute intervals.
When the whole 208 Squadron project is released the intention is that it will install a Batch File with a Desktop icon which will offer three choices of active Traffic file:-
1. 208 at Stradishall.
2. 208 in transit to Africa.
3. 208 at Nairobi Base (Embakasi).
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
- Contact:
Re: Formation Training...
Garry,Fodda wrote:Totally taking over this thread, but I'm interested...
Peter, as a real life display formation flyer, how do you find the same or similar flying in FS? Is it harder or easier in your view? Do you reckon you could recreate your past displays using your PC and the models in FS?
I have to say that formation flying in FS is very much harder than in real life and the closer you are to the leader, the harder it gets. I would not really be able to recreate a formation aerobatics display in FS other than by flying each position in turn as I formate on the previous recordings...Some of my YouTube videos show me doing this for a circuit with solo rolls at one point and a "thread the needle" opposing pass at another. With the Avengers I got up to four ships but was not happy with my performance in the 3 and 4 positions...Here are couple of YouTube vids to show what I mean:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDQnk6FGKSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkTHDEjxGgs
I flew all those aircraft parts to make the video and can watch it anytime by running the recordings together.
It is of course easier to fly a Solo display and here is a YouTube of one of those:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFX8j1ESqAw
All this is not really relevant to this thread as the thread involves high precision programming and ghost airfield design and there is no actual flying involved...Everything you see is AI Traffic and as far as I know, I am the first to make AI traffic actually fly in formation from take-off to landing
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
- petermcleland
- Red Arrows
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: 25 Jul 2004, 10:28
- Location: Dartmouth, Devon
- Contact:
Re: Formation Training...
Squadron Balbo...All twelve Hunters are now working in Line Abreast:-
Appearing over the hangar...The AIBlast noise is great!
I don't think a real twelve could do Line Abreast this well...
...nor such an immaculate flat turn.
Getting a bit ragged on short final...Echo seems well out of position!
Touchdown is a rather splendid spectacle but I think you would be pushed to find a real runway that is wide enough for this
Tomorrow I'll start moving them into more sensible formations...Three Finger Fours or Three Boxes and I'll have them land back at base from three Echelons at three minute intervals
Appearing over the hangar...The AIBlast noise is great!
I don't think a real twelve could do Line Abreast this well...
...nor such an immaculate flat turn.
Getting a bit ragged on short final...Echo seems well out of position!
Touchdown is a rather splendid spectacle but I think you would be pushed to find a real runway that is wide enough for this
Tomorrow I'll start moving them into more sensible formations...Three Finger Fours or Three Boxes and I'll have them land back at base from three Echelons at three minute intervals
Regards,
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee
http://www.petermcleland.com/
Updated 28/8/2007
My Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermcleland?feature=mhee