BAC 1-11 Starters

[hs748flyer]

I was doing some reading on airliners.net today and found out that the BAC 1-11 used two different types of starters: An air-starter, and the Hydraulic starters - the latter of which makes the incredibly loud howling/siren sound midway through the start cycle (as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqmbgvRNi1A).

So here is my question for David: Did you model the two different types, or was it easier to just make a more generic starter? The sound-pack I acquired for the 1-11 which improves on DM's sounds seems to feature the Hydraulic starters, although those sounds needed heavy CFG adjustment to even work (due to the authors major err when trying to add extra effect to the sounds, adding EQ+10 to most of the filenames - very frustrating).

But that aside, big thanks from me (and many others) to David for creating such a realistic aircraft. I wonder if JustFlight, after poorly modelling Comets, Viscounts and like, will come and model the 1-11? I think I can see a 200 crossed with a 400, 475, 500 and 510ED...

Michael. T

[Vancouver]

Nice video. Isn't that just the best BA livery ever.

[DaveB]

Dear me Vancouver.. you know how to poke a stick in a Wasp nest I agree with you btw.. many don't. It's one of those 'Marmite' liveries.. you either love or hate it.. no in between

Michael.. I'm probably wrong but I think either type would sound similar. Generally.. you could start off ground supply or APU (as DM has modelled) but there is no option for 'Air' start modelled AFAIK. This question has never come up before! The problem with FS is that it only allows so much time for the start sound sequence so whichever version is chosen, you only have a limited time to make it happen in the sim

ATB
DaveB

[Garry Russell]

A starter is not modelled, it's just a sound and a gauge response

To have in effect two sequences is not possible in FS without a lot of special coding and that would go unnoticed

The sound of the One-Elevens starter is the same throughout and only get louder with pitch change especially as the engine fires and it start to wind up to high RPM

Re BA Landor..yes the most depressing and by far the worst livery ever in the history of BA

It was dull and miserable but photographed lighter than it really was.

Some modellers even think it was white and paint the blue the same as Negus

The Red tail was white and BOAC blue and Landor Pearl grey and midnight. The grey was dark enough for them to outline the exits in white but hat was changed later as the grey tended to lighten up with age.

[TSR2]

With you Garry, Landor was awful, the original BA red tails were the best BA, but you can't beat Red Square can you?

[NigelC]

The 1-11 is started by air. Air from the APU is delivered (hence the air delivery valve) to the CSDS (Constant Speed Drive/Starter). This has 2 concentric drive shafts... 1 drives the engine on start, which is when you hear the high pitched whine, and the once the engine is alight and the start cycle is cancelled, the engine drives back via the other drive shaft through the CSDS to the generator. If the drive sheared on start, you would get a big "WHEEEEEEEEEEE!" as the CSDS spun up wiyhout any load on it, you could hear a CSDS shear all over the airport at Gatwick.

[DaveB]

Thank goodness you popped in Nige.. I hoped you would

ATB
DaveB

[hs748flyer]

The 1-11 is started by air. Air from the APU is delivered (hence the air delivery valve) to the CSDS (Constant Speed Drive/Starter). This has 2 concentric drive shafts... 1 drives the engine on start, which is when you hear the high pitched whine, and the once the engine is alight and the start cycle is cancelled, the engine drives back via the other drive shaft through the CSDS to the generator. If the drive sheared on start, you would get a big "WHEEEEEEEEEEE!" as the CSDS spun up wiyhout any load on it, you could hear a CSDS shear all over the airport at Gatwick.

OK, makes sense. I guess if Hydaulic starters were used, they would be almost the same in principle. But uses that way of starting would put a lot of undue strain on the pumps and hydraulic lines, right?

[Chris Trott]

Any hydraulic starter would probably be setup independent of the normal hydraulic system. However, the few jet engines I know of that are motor-started use an electric motor, not hydraulic for weight, simplicity, and the fact that a hydraulic mule for off-aircraft starting power is very complicated to operate and prone to leaking, not something you want when you can just connect the standard GPU's DC supply and provide more than enough power to spin an electric motor.